Is Germany being unreasonable? Childfree adults paying more for elder care

Agree. I keep reading that its more expensive to be single. Its OBVIOUS that the DINK households have the most disposable income, but a family with 2 adults and 2 or more kids is definitely going to have less money spare on average than a single person alone

The idea that everything costs more for a single person may be true when compared to a couple but it is emphatically not true when compared to a family - my expenses are higher on every single level when compared to those of my single friend, because I need to live in a larger home, it needs more beds and furniture, it needs to be warm, I need a car, if we go to a restaurant it costs upwards of £120 for a meal for four, if we go on holiday it has to be in school holidays and there are four of us, meaning it costs 4-5 times what my single friend has to pay. One school trip for one of my teenaged children probably costs the equivalent of her annual holiday.

The average gross salary is higher that the UK but we pay a lot more in tax and social contributions. Also parents can't decide that their childen won't inherit from them. The whole system is different.

I migrated, but I would still have contributed my share if it would have come to that, in the end it didn't. My mother died before her savings ran out. I wouldn't have left my siblings to deal with it on their own just because I left the country. I mean it wouldn't ever have been an enormous amount, the bulk of care home costs were covered by my mother's Pflegegeld and pension.
On the plus side, there are also laws about inheritance that mean you can't get disinherited (except in exceptional circumstances). I will inherit my exact share of what is left of my parents possessions once the Erbschein has been issued.

We will go the same way I am sure. The veneration of parents as supreme contributors to society (as if people have kids because they want to benefit society) already happens (even here. And the denigrating of people without children happens too. So we will get there.

This is one of those rare times where you think, thank God we are the U.K. and not the EU. Let Germany do what they like, but why penalise people who for whatever reason do not have children.

They can still ask you to pay. Just how far they would go to enforce it, I don't know, but I have a friend for whom this was a question.

I don’t think most without children actively wanted that. Most are involuntarily childless.

That sounds like a ponzi scheme. Those children also get old and we cannot have neverending population growth. Lower birthrates are the new norm and it’s time we accepted that and planned for the new normal.

In terms of being able to force kids to pay for elder care - what of those elderly whose children have migrated? How does Germany manage those cases.

Really not that much extra - especially if you are low paid / lifelong single.

People would be surprised that we aren’t generally rolling around in cash. But also while we may not have childrearing fees we also pay for things we personally will never be able to make use of.

It's the same in France, I assume it's a Napoleonic thing.

Agree it's simply wrong. People should be responsible for themselves, not expect and be expected to get their kids to pay for them. And it's not like Germans in particular don't earn well and don't save a lot (the average gross salary is about £8000 a year more than in the UK).

Although I always wonder how they manage to pay the high rents once they retire. And I think that is becoming an increasing issue.

The idea of people being required to contribute financially to the care of abusive parents is truly batshit.

It’s not just a German thing but everywhere in Europe (including the UK.)

I don’t have an issue with saying clearly that I don’t think all families produce good children. But that’s more and issue of socio-economic status / education rather than whatever nonsense the ethno-nationalists come out with.

I don’t understand why they don’t make it easier for parents if the country is so reliant upon birth rates. It’s no the wonder so many are choosing to be childfree.

Yes that’s what I meant.

The IF referred to the IF in your previous post

Not at all. We pay way more than in the UK.

Note the IF.
It’s not a case of having to have private insurrance. And no one there is getting bankrupt by health costs, unlike so many people the USA.

I don’t think they ‘moved away from everyone paying fir everything’ as you’d like it to be.

Yes, but we still pay a lot more in tax and insurances than in the UK.

That very interesting, thanks, so they have already moved away from everyone paying for everything irrespective of choices.

In Germany if you have private health insurance you don't pay into the state system.

You get the discount for life when you become a parent.

Very difficult to comment on this one without knowing it inside out BUT…as a general non specific point, I think the principle of everyone contributing to every item of expediture of the state probably a good one. Otherwise if penalising these childfree taxpayers, do you give them a refund for eg education services or paediatric healthcare that they aren’t using? (And then do you give private parents a refund too?)

If you look it at a different angle, they are discounting the elder care tax for those with children, think of it like child benefit. What isn’t clear is whether you still get the discount once your children are adults as I’ve seen both ways written, possibly lost in translation!

So many people who struggle to understand how societies are maintained.

"I have a private pension and my own money, and I pay more for other people's children!"

Your pension is worth 0. Nothing, unless there is a young generation to keep the country and the economy running when you are old. Without that, whatever pot of cash you have will be worth nothing after an economic or worse societal collapse.

There seems to be this idea that birthrates don't impact society.. and therefore it can go down, and the economy will be fine.. it can go down and climate change will be better.. nothing bad will happen. Because? Immigration? Except those countries also have falling or slowing birth rates... Because AI? That isn't exactly a dream scenario.

The reality is everyone, with or without children, needs the next generation. There are no exceptions, it doesn't matter how rich or idependant you are. You need a future capable generation.

That is why everyone pays for it.

Parents pay more, hugely more, because they choose to. Both financially and in labour. Those without children will enjoy the rewards of the stable society maintained by that labour. There is nothing wrong with that, there are plenty of other societal roles as well as raising children, and some people can't. Nothing wrong with it, except it does need to be acknowledged that parents make a huge contribution to the future of any nation.

In the case of Germany? Good, it sounds like they are a few steps ahead of the uk. We currently are facing a future of elderly care that we won't be able to fund. What are we going to do about it? Maybe not this, but over the next few decades there will need to be changes, and I wouldn't be surprised if they include children being forced to take on more responsibility for their parents. And for those without children, the state.