Is Germany being unreasonable? Childfree adults paying more for elder care

First so sorry all this happened to you.

Secondly:

The thought of being penalised for something that isn't my fault stings a bit.

This is how I feel too. I am essentially being punished for something out of my control.

It would be like charging single people more for elder care contribution.

It also ignores all the things we fund that we will never access (schools, childcare) thus leaving more money available for parents.

You are except from paying as soon as you have a child. It dosen't matter where the child lives or even if they are alive.

They ignore though some of us without children actually save the state money. I don’t have children and would have to be a single mother requiring large amounts of state support to have had children. They never consider that in their calculations or when they demonise people for not having children.

They also ignore many of us will have to pay above the odds for private care so why should we be penalised extra for state support we don’t use?

I'll admit that it upsets me. I'm childless, not childfree. I cared for my parents and my late husband. There was no input from DH's adult children, though I guess the argument might be that they contributed to the economy of the country.

I worked as a secondary school teacher for more than 40 yrs. I did try for children of my own but was punched in the stomach whilst I was pregnant - by one of my teenage pupils.

I used my income to help provide for my parents and my husband and I'm trying to arrange my affairs so that I won't be a burden.

The thought of being penalised for something that isn't my fault stings a bit.

My next door neighbour has two adult sons who don't officially work. (One used to; the other never has.) The sons aren't disabled, unless you count a liking for drink and drug dependency as disabilities. One of the sons has two teenagers who appear to be going the same way as their father.

They're not contributing to my well-being through tax. If anything, it's the other way round.

Ridiculous proposal. How do you prove someone doesnt have children? Do you have to submit a form, what if you have kids but don't see them? Why not tax families with children for polluting, they use more resources and take up housing. Such a nonsense proposal.

It really isn't. I nearly never had a child. It cost me 60,000 to have one and she'll be my one and only. I was pretty sure I wouldn't be a mother 3 years ago but still held these opinions. Everyone needs to be involved in paying for what society needs. Either pay for it through paying to raise a child who will generate income for the state or pay for it (in far lesser amounts) through tax.
I'm obviously not talking about people who raise kids at the state's expense. That's entirely different.

All that said, I hate the idea of my kids being saddled with my care in old age, especially as elder care often comes when their own children are just leaving home, and would rather pay.

Lots of people in state care have children they never see.

Lots of childfree people are supported by nieces / nephews and other family. You are being simplistic. And the reasons people don’t have children are so complex this will not be an incentive.

Not your state pension. The younger generations pay for the older ones. That's how it works. If there's no one to pay it, it won't exist to give it to you. You pay taxes to pay for the elderly. When you are elderly, someone needs to be there to pay for you.

It’s not short sighted. You seem to think people without children all chose that. So it is punishing people for not having children.

People who were once children pay tax towards the health, education etc. of people who are currently children. That's the pattern that repeats.

Who the current children belong to and whether the taxpayers have children themselves is not the most important thing here from the point of view of giving us a well educated and healthy community and workforce.

Why not everybody equally? (And having children does not stop you being reliant on the state for care when elderly)

I think this is short-sighted. An extra percent of tax on your income versus paying to raise a child is incomparable.

It's already the case that childless people pay extra tax to cover care needs here in Germany. I pay 32,12€ a month extra on a good salery so it's not going to persuade people to have children. Although we have very generous incentives in other ways.The system is totally different to the UK. The state funds most of the care home fees. If you still can't afford it your aldult children can be made to contibute.

Why are kids my pension? I am the one funding my pension?

It’s highly unreasonable but with the panic behind birth rates it was not long before countries started punishing people for the “crime” of not having children.

So the involuntarily childless face double punishment.

I think you need to look at kids as your pension. The more there are, the more you will get back. We all pay towards educating them equally. Then most parents pay countless thousands to feed, clothe and entertain them which, hopefully, leads to them becoming contributing citizens in the future. Kids are really expensive. If every parent could put what they spend on their kids in a bank account for their retirement, there would be no need for state assistance.

You also have the situation where someone who has paid a shed load of tax but has no children being charged more than someone who has paid less and has had many.

They have a very different society where intergenerational living is far more common than here.
Fundamentally I don’t like the idea. Taxing people for not having children. Like some sort of punishment.
Give it time and that rate will be tapered. Only two children and you pay more tax than someone with three.
Not nice.

But alot of gay people do, sometimes by adoption but not always.

The child-free adults have been paying for the education, health care etc of other people's children, so it seems very unfair on the face of it.

People without children already pay tax towards all other people children re education, transport, medical etc.

It is interesting and it also highlights that the claims of child free people that they typically take up less of the nation’s resources by not taking up educational places etc are often unfounded.

Although I always reject that anyway as it’s like someone who always takes the train/ tram saying “oh well I don’t use the roads so why should I pay for them?”

Over the age of 23? That's steep.

I don't like the idea of this but I see there is already differing tax rates for those with more children.