Is Germany being unreasonable? Childfree adults paying more for elder care

It’s not unfair imo.

I suspect employers will do everything possible to not pay though.. so possibly discriminate against people when hiring.
What about if you couldn’t have children because of a medical issue? I think that should be an exemption.

I think I share the view of those who made the point that childfree adults are paying through their taxes for the education and health care for other people’s children, as well as for maternity and paternity benefits that they do not benefit from themselves, so this seems a bit unfair.

I suspect it is also the case that childfree women tend to have earned more over their lifetimes than women with children, so are more likely to have savings and have to pay their own care home fees. They are also likely to have paid more tax and NI contributions than women with children.

My husband and I each had an unmarried aunt born in the early 1920s. They both worked full time for over 40 years and they both ended their days in care homes fully funded by themselves.

That's not the case for many.

My state pensions is not a consideration. My actual pension is private.

I don't like the idea of penalising people for not having kids when that may be completely out of their control. If governments want/need people to have kids then by all means incentivise that with childcare, food vouchers, affordable housing etc as well as assistance getting mums back to work

Conversely those without children have not consumed education, early-years medical care etc and other state supported elements such as childcare.

Yes they have. When they wwre children. They would have had their education and healthcare costs paid for just as todays children do.

It's very easy to check with our tax system. You don't prove that somebody does not have a child. The person proves that they do by applying for tax credits/medical insurance etc.

Every single person? That feels anomalous to me. I'm currently involved in caring for my DM, but not many of my peers have done the same.

Thanks @Mumsntfan1 , that's really relevant and throws the whole thread into a new light.

I wouldn't worry about that. AI or climate change or both will take out the human race before today's babies reach old age.

And if it doesn't we'll have robots.

fewer

You dont pay for 'other people's chuff monkeys' because children aren't possessions that belong to their parents! This is a ridiculous view that a lot of people seem to hold. Your contributions pay for the children WHO ARE PEOPLE IN THEIR OWN RIGHT just as others paid for you as a child. HTH.

I'd say it's more about raising kids than having them.

It seems a very blunt tool.

My ex has 7 children (that I know of) - 2 with me and 5 with later partners - and he sees none of them. He had to be forced into paying by CMS. My two girls with him are working and paying tax, but through no help from him. They’ve not seen him for many years.

If it’s purely to reward him for having children then it works in his case, however if it’s in expectation that someone with children will need less state care then it’ll not work at all in his case. His children won’t care for him, and he won’t fund care from inheritance because his parents have disowned him because of his behaviour.

They are definitely going to ramp up the state targetting of childless people and it will only get worse as birth rates continue to fall.

And as they cannot possibly distinguish childfree from childless a lot of people will face a double punishment: the sadness of childlessness, and then financial penalties for being unable to have children.

Then they will be subject to the same rule. Have kids to help give you care in your dotage or pay more so the state provides it. Makes sense to me.

Well I don’t have children and because of the available time I have I provide tonnes of care for my elderly parents, neighbour and godparents, all of whom are only still at home because I and a few others are able to help them out. On the face of it, being effectively penalised for not having children to care for me when my time comes seems grossly unfair!

It's hard to comment reasonably in isolation without understanding the rest of the German social care framework, law and taxes.

As someone with a passing knowledge I'd throw in Elternunerhault, a provision in the German system that passes on some of the financial costs of supporting an elderly parent in care back to the children. It applies to children with incomes over €100k and, unusually for Germany, excludes the spouse's income.

What you highlight is a proposed increase in the cost childless couples already pay. The original legislation came in just as our third round of ICSI had failed, oh how I laughed.

Although the timing was unfortunate for us I don't disagree with the levy.

I think this idea is outrageous. Having children is bad for the environment and no country should be encouraging people to have more - or worse, punishing them for not having any.

Quite apart from the fact that some people can't have children. And what happens if your child dies before you do?

Loads of men skip out on maintenance.

I dare say the next stage would be as suggested by JD Vance that childless women ( women only mind) are not allowed to vote. As apparently the thinking is they have no part to play in the future of the country.
That is where such policies travel.

I'll add that such a rule penalises women more than men. I was in my 30s when I married, so I'll concede that my age might have contributed towards my childless state. What are women supposed to do? Grab a man from the streets?

A man can avoid penalties by becoming a father later in life...

It's hard to comment as I have little knowledge of the German tax system, its approach to elder care, or the nuances of their economy.

In principle I don't disagree that families should care for each other as much as possible and not rely on the govt to pay for them, but it's clearly not a one-size-fits-all and comes with problems.

So I suppose I'm not theoretically averse to it given that those who don't have children are more likely to need govt funds to pay for them in old age. Whether or not it's actually fair though is impossible to say without having a more detailed knowledge of Germany and their social system.

They don't pay the extra tax. Not paying for your children isn't easy unless you don't work in which case you don't pay tax!

Many will never be able to have a child.