Is Germany being unreasonable? Childfree adults paying more for elder care

The TV licence is a massive topic here as well. But we do have somewhat better TV.

I agree 100% with this.

I read today that up until 1979 a husband had to give permission for his wife to work! Why on earth did anyone get married! I know we had equally outrageous laws here like needing permission to have a bank account etc. But ultimately there are a lot of people in society who want women at home looking after kids and this is a policy which pushes us back in that direction.

Excellent point!

In true German fashion, it’s a bit more complex than that. You automatically pay 0.6% less ‘care insurance‘ for being a parent, and that’s for life. Then you also pay an extra 0.25% less per child if you have at least 2 DC under 25 (max 5 kids). So parents of younger kids and those who might still be in education pay even less because they will probably still have active costs of raising those children. But you also get the basic 0.6% less as an acknowledgment of having had kids in the first place.
And a reminder that this is only the tiny amount of money people pay for their care insurance. Nobody is particularly bothered by it because the amounts involved are so low.
There are other things to get really exercised about in German society, but not this. Like, for instance, the fact that every household is obliged to have a TV licence, whether they watch tv or even have a tv - and the content of German public tv is just terrible. My tv licence costs me more than I save through this care insurance ‘discount’. It’s just one of those things.

I also don't have children and it does seem unfair on the surface.

However, I don't begrudge paying tax for schools, maternity etc as a) I went to school as a child so arguably I'm "paying back" for that and also we are educating our adults of tomorrow in whatever jobs they may choose for society so it's a cyclical thing.

There was a notorious case some years back of a woman being prosecuted for the funeral costs of her estranged father, who had abused her as a child. People were horrified - it’s really not like everyone thinks that’s ok. I think there are now exemption clauses for when the parent has committed certain crimes, but it’s tricky if they weren’t convicted for it.
Remember the responsibility cuts both ways: children have certain financial obligations to parents, but it’s also virtually impossible to disinherit children altogether.

There is a care crisis in Germany as well and it will get only worse. It's an important conversation to have.

Your last sentence made me laugh

There is a bit cultural effort to support aging parents in Germany so I can see why it might work there. In the UK it might seem unfair. They do have a birthratw problem though.

Thank you :) - I shall go and find out more! I'm always interested in how other countries solve the problems we have too

I kind of assumed it was - whereas here....

It is not parents using education etc though, it’s children.

All of us adults have had an education each, it allows us to be productive tax paying members of society.

Similarly my kids will grow up to pay tax- no education, no future taxpayer.

Old people without family (or with useless family) will have a case worker from the Sozialamt (might depend on the Land what it is actually called) who are in charge making sure they receive the care they need.

The social system and health care is vastly better here than in the UK.

Yes it's not new - been happening for ages. As a childless person I'm not opposed per se but i would be interested to know how Germany guarantees that older ppl without children actually get the help they need. We know in the UK that getting social care is incredibly difficult because the threshold to qualify is so high and that perversely those without adult children despite being more reliant on it, are less likely ti get it because they lack someone to advocate ie battle the system for them.

does the state in Germany guarantee a certain level of care and support and proactively identify ppl who are old and without children?

I was surprised to learn that this is not new and taxing the childless more is already in place in Germany and has been for many years.

For example, Germany’s current system already has a childlessness surcharge. A childless employee typically pays 2.4% of relevant income towards long-term care insurance, compared with 1.8% for someone with one child, and less still for those with multiple children.

This new bill is proposing to increase the current childless surcharge.

Absolutely shocking. What is this Distopian shit from Germany?!

How does it work for parents of children who grow up to be criminals? Do they still get the benefit of their 'contribution to society'?

Good point. So those men (as it is mostly men) would get the benefit of having had kids without doing any of the work.

I am also absolutely disgusted at the poll outcome.

What have we become

Hmmm but I am doing the bulk of the caring for my parent as a single childfree person, because my siblings who do have children dont have as much time as me. (Allegedly)

Would I get a reduction in % for that?

A single person doesn't necessarily have more disposable income than a couple with two kids. It depends whether the costs that are shared (bills, rent/mortgage, council tax) save more money than is spent on kids.

For example, where I live there is not a huge difference in price between a 1 bed and 3 bed rental property, and most are band A for council tax. A couple sharing a 3 bed make a significant saving over a single person in a 1 bed. Enough to fund two children!

In the UK, at a lower income level it's even less likely, due to UC top ups, council tax discounts and so on.

Sounds appalling. Those without children, at least if they have worked and paid tax, have already greatly subsidised the education, medical care and much more, of those who do have children.

So long as those with kids paid for the education system and those without paid 0% of tax towards that as they do not use it - same for kids healthcare etc.

I don’t want children on the off chance that they may look after me in years to come.

i have also not drawn down on how many thousands of pounds it would cost for me to have NHS care whilst being pregnant multiple times, giving birth, any costs of schooling, caring etc etc etc, so I’m sure it will balance out if I do need care in the future

Yes and what happens if you have children or are estranged or they die before you / do you get taxed in lieu of it after (?)