To be absolutely depressed by parenting

God this thread has made me feel much better that is isn't just me that feels like this. It is fucking relentless isn't it?

Anyone with a child below primary school age is definitely 'in the trenches' in my book.

This is of no help to you but this has really cheered me up. Mine are 5 and 2 and I’m finding it really relentless at the moment… so glad it’s not just me. It’s reassuring that I’m not the only one who finds it really hard work.

When they are tired they get so hyper and run around giggling and pushing each other, totally ignore me and there’s two of them and so speedy and they’re everywhere so I just don’t know which one to tackle first.

The small window DH and I have to ourselves we’re so tired we end up just sitting on the sofa doomscrolling.

So you’re not on your own at least OP. I’ve often thought of starting a thread asking if having a 5yo and 2yo still classed as “in the trenches” of parenting in mumsnet terminology.

I am a qualified educator in ages 0-11, and I was a youth worker before kids. I had the idea it would be similar to working with children, all sat around a table doing fun crafts, able to keep them still and calm.

It’s not that way at all. DD always tells me I’m doing it wrong, she doesn’t like it, she’s bored, she wants the telly, she spills the paint water and mixes all the colours so they’re all a horrible brown shade (despite me strictly telling her NOT to mix them because they will turn said horrible brown shade). It’s fucking shit.

OP, I am sorry you are having a tough time. I have no right to offer advice because I don't have kids. I am a besotted auntie (two mid twenties nieces) and a proud great auntie to a 4 year old. I had nieces x2 from a young age for a weekend regularly and have been privileged to be trusted to look after great niece for a night. Do you have any such family support? Even to take one of them. I salute all of you. I was able to 'give them back' but it was relentless, hilarious, rewarding all at once. I have to say that I have the best relationship with the Dear Nieces now. Great Niece hurled herself at me when she saw me recently and I consider that a win. My poor mother had DB and I who were less than 14 months apart and fought like cat and dog! We are supportive of each other now. Courage and props to all of you mamas.

Really glad to hear you had a better day! Fingers crossed tomorrow is more of the same.

DH currently doing bedtime after I lost it and all I can hear is them screaming mummy.

I’ve actually got a stomach ache in the location I always get when I’m really stressed.

How has your day been OP?

I just lost it at my kids and really screeched at dinner time.

Firstly DS kicked DD (she had been poking him) so both in tears as they sat up. Then they both started pissing around with their foot and picking it up with their hands (can tolerate this from the 3 year old but surely the 6-nearly-7 year old should be able to use her bloody fork by now). Lots of dropped food on the floor. Then they started teasing each other and trying to kick each other under the table. Then DD picked up the melon from the fruit bowl and was spinning it around, causing it to fall on the floor and almost break. I took it off her, turned my back for a second and she was bloody licking it. Fucking why??? I really screeched then.

Mealtimes are a real trigger for me, I’ve spent ages slaving away to make a decent meal and it’s usually the first time I’ve really sat down all day after work. To have them pissing around, screaming, fighting and throwing food is just fucking awful and grates on my every last nerve.

I WANT to enjoy time with them. But we have had this type of dinner time every sodding night for about 700 nights now. I’m so drained

Thing is with the ‘I am not available to you right now’ - you are, I mean, I’m guessing you wouldn’t ignore a request for a drink or breakfast or the toilet or whatever.

We kept a potty in every toilet and they were well able to use it independently at 3. Obviously every child is different though. And no, they don't get breakfast until after 7.30 and there is a bottle of water and a banana / satsuma / apple / wrapped pain au chocolat / put out the night before which is available to them. (In the 90s my parents used the tin of biscuits - "how many biscuits are we allowed?" - "how many have you had?" and the answer was always one more than we'd had)

Totally get what you are saying about consequences though. That part of parenting can feel hard, frustrating and unfair. I often lament that never in my life has anyone given any thought to my 'emotional wellbeing'. One of our children is autistic nd I have actually had therapy to deal with my feelings on having to be so fucking attuned to their emotions so fucking much of the time. As I said, it is totally ok to find this hard. It is bloody hard.

I feel for you.
You are in the trenches and 90% of the problem is that you are tired. If you could solve the lack of sleep you might enjoy your children.

Mine were the same age gap and poor sleepers but DH was great with the early mornings. They were also like yours very giddy together.
It got better for me. From age 5 onwards was just a joy. The baby stage was my worst nightmare and 1 to 4 was very hard work.
Lots of good tips on here but maybe your DD needs to be a little bit older for you to see much difference.

before I had kids, I actually thought I'd be quite good at it. For some reason cardboard eggboxes figured in my thinking. I'd sit at a table with them and craft.

It was bloody awful in reality.

They are lovely adults now.

I just couldn’t disagree any more strongly with this statement. I think what you mean is, it got better for you. For me, not the case at all.

The arguing, the noise, the shouting, the fighting, the challenging every decision. Mine are 12 and 9 and it hasn’t got better, despite my best efforts. I’ve done parenting courses, I’ve read the books. I’ve tried keeping them apart, forcing them together. Going out. Staying in. Punishing them. Praising them. Literally nothing works or makes a difference. I’ve developed some sort of tic/stimming reaction to them, which I’m aware of but can’t seem to stop (I’m not autistic). I’m wishing my life away waiting for this to get better but it never does.

@Roselilly36 I think it depends on what you find hard. I have friends who didn't have life long health problems because of pregnancy, had babies/toddlers who slept well or coped with lack of sleep as they didn't need to work full time to support their families. Their experience of small children is vastly different to someone who has bad sleepers and/or needs to work 60 hours a week.

The problem with toddlers/small children is that the parenting is very physical. Yes, the worries are more basic and all you need to do is keep them fed and safe. But it's the relentlessnessly physical side of it that I find torture.

Well I wouldn't. Cherish every moment and all that but also: in a few years things will get noticeably better. In 10 years they'll be loads better. I can remember being at the park or playground freezing my arse off at stupid o'clock because it was the least worst option to get them OUT of the house to run around. Now I have teenage DC they sort themselves out in a morning and I get as much weekend sleep time as I want, around the endless giving them lifts, that is 😄 It will get better!

Also one more thing to add. When kids aren't listening, misbehaving constantly, and think that any attempts by the parent to discipline are funny.. to me that indicates that the child a) has too much control and b) is getting something positive out of these situations - whether that's attention from the parent or just more interaction with the parent. You might think, why don't they care, I'm angry/frustrated etc - but to a 3 year old that's still being interpreted as a positive interaction with you.

So you need to model the behaviour that you do want to see. You mentioned earlier your kid would mess about if you tried to bake with them. But you should be setting really clear expectations before you even begin. Sit nicely. Show mummy you're sitting nicely. No grabbing the spoon. Hold it nicely. Show me you can hold the spoon nicely. Any misbehaving - grabbing the spoon, putting hands in the bowl etc - immediately removal of the activity and a time out.

And constantly and consistently reward the good behaviour. Rewards charts really help with this, or as I said previously allow them to play with their favourite/chosen toy for good behaviour.

Male your expectations super clear about every little thing - sitting, waiting their turn, saying please and thank you, keeping hands to themselves etc etc, eating nicely, blah blah.

Immediate small punishment for not following instructions.
Reward the good behaviour- even just sitting nicely. Praise them. They'll quickly learn praise = gets them what they want. So they'll be good because they'll want the praise, and the rewards.
Be consistent all the time, stay in control, be the leader and you will see that you can turn this around.

You have to persevere with rewards charts, they don't get them straight away. Keep using it over 3 or 4 weeks and by that point they'll get it. You could also try giving yourself a version of it too. Might make them take more interest.

But any discipline method takes a little bit of time to work. If you give up too quickly then you'll just end up going round in circles.

You could also try immediate removal of their favourite toy for bad behaviour. Or just removal of toys in general. Good behaviour = play time with their chosen toy.

It’s bloody hard work op - at least you’ll have someone to visit you in your nursing home tho

I have one for ds(5) to motivate him with reading to me; every time he does he gets a marble in a jar and each marble is £1 but that works as it’s so specific. And it’s purely motivational.

Blimey.@checktheoil, with that incentive ,I’ll come and read to you as often as you like! And not Biff and Chip, either! Hang on in there, it will get better.

Agreed, it doesn't work at 2 or even just 3. Assuming you've done blackout blinds etc?

5 and 2 is flipping brutal. Relentless and overwhelming. The thing in your power to change is some time alone out of the house and how you react to them.

It is really tough when they are little, but they soon grow. I know you don’t see it at the time. I hate to tell you this but wait until they are adults, life is much harder, I would swap for little ones any day of the week!

Sympathy. It does get easier as they get older. I would repeat ‘it’s just a phase, it’s just a phase’ to myself over and over from ages 1-3. Even now (3 and 7) their main aims in life are to wind each other up. Drives me spare.

We divide and conquer when possible, as each of them is much more delightful when they have 1 on 1 attention with a parent.

We also have no tv or screens, which I appreciate will seem completely unrealistic for many families. For us it was making behaviour so much worse and while the first few weeks of the ban were harrowing it has paid absolute dividends on their behaviour, ability to entertain themselves and general noise in the house.

I age one year by the time mine finishes a sentence.

Two low sleep needs kids here so you have my utmost sympathy regarding the sleep deprivation/late nights/broken nights/early mornings!

Average sleep needs for a 5 year old start at just 10hrs in total per 24hrs and as little as 8hrs is considered low, but still quite normal - for a 3 year old these figures are 11hrs and 9hrs respectively. So if you're putting them to bed before 8pm then a low sleep a needs five year old may genuinely have had enough sleep by 4am and the three year old by 5am, that 8/9hrs may actually be all they need.

We eat early with the kids (in practice, this means that on weekdays I eat early with the kids and my husband eats alone when he gets home - we sort of accepted that family meal times aren't possible currently) and then do as much clearing up as possible before bath time so there's less to do once they're down. We also each sit with one while they go to sleep so we get some of the nice one-to-one time (I especially value this now that the older one is a bit older as she often shares her worries and things at this time) and I think having that time sitting together listening to a kids' sleep meditation fills up their connection cups a bit so they're easier the next day. My husband often falls asleep during this bit! He does the overnights/early mornings and has the weekend lie ins (he's asleep now). We used to do it the other way round, whatever works for everyone to get sufficient sleep to be functional.

I also get every overwhelmed by the constant noise/barrage of talking. I will often say, "Mummy needs five minutes with no talking" and put a timer on Alexa (they accept timings much better from the tech than from us). Loop earphones are a lifesaver for toning it down a bit. As others have said you don't have to answer every question, you can just give a running commentary on what you're doing a lot of the time.

Do you have one of those small trampolines? Having one indoors was amazing at that stage where they clambered on everything. During school holidays we do breakfast, clearing up, get washed and dressed and go OUT, then their behaviour is much easier to manage in the afternoons. Sometimes I struggle to get us out in the morning and then regret it later on in the day...

It is absolutely relentless at that age but it goes get easier, ours are early/mid-primary age now and I do monthly cocktails with some other school mums, I'm in a book club, I go to the gym. Do you have a sense of a single change you could make that would really help you - weekly walk alone for half an hour, nap on Sunday afternoons, fortnightly phonecall with your best friend? It does get MUCH easier but I appreciate that does not help in the moment!