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AIBU to think sex and gender need different terms if distinct?

133 replies

sabreslot · 24/05/2026 15:31

We have been told that sex and gender are not the same thing. So, as the words woman and man describe someone's sex, why are we using the same words to describe someone’s gender identity.

For example, if a man (sex) has a gender identity that is ‘woman’ they are effectively using a word that describes the opposite sex, which they are not.

Surely, if we had a different word to describe people’s genders and indeed if there was a clear definition, as there are with the words that describe sex, many of the arguments around this subject would be put to bed.

With this in mind, could someone please explain to me what gender is if sex and gender are different things.

AIBU - If sex and gender are separate things then we should not use the same words to describe both.

OP posts:
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Overthehillmum63 · 01/06/2026 20:22

Gender doesn’t exist. There are men, women and personality types.

spannasaurus · 01/06/2026 20:10

“A trans-identified male usually refers to a transgender man—someone assigned female at birth who lives and identifies as a man. However, the exact usage of the term can vary depending on context: "

GC women wouldn't use trans identified male to mean a female who identifies as trans and TRAs say that the words trans identified are a transphobic dogwhistle so that Google result is surprising

viques · 01/06/2026 20:06

MagpiePi · 01/06/2026 07:45

According to Google, a trans identifying man is a biological woman who identifies as a man, which is in direct contradiction to what @WallaceinAnderland , @viques and @sabreslot are saying, but then it also says it can also be misused or inverted in a derogatory context.
🤷‍♀️

Google says:

“A trans-identified male usually refers to a transgender man—someone assigned female at birth who lives and identifies as a man. However, the exact usage of the term can vary depending on context: 1, 2]
General/Preferred Usage: Most commonly, the term is used interchangeably with "trans man". For example, the GLAAD Media Reference Guide highlights that a person assigned female at birth but who identifies as a man may use "transgender man" to describe himself. 1, 2]
Alternative/Specific Usage: In some academic, feminist, or policy contexts, it is sometimes used to emphasize the person's biological sex (female) alongside their gender identity (male) to differentiate them from cisgender men. 1, 2, 3, 4]
Derogatory Context: The phrase can occasionally be misused or inverted by specific groups to refer to a transgender woman (a male-to-female individual), to deny their female identity. 1]”

You don't think then that the GLAAD Media Guide might have skin in the game by keeping the language referring to trans people ambiguous and confusing? If enough people are not sure if the language refers to men or to women then it will end up like the last census where the Census people admitted they would not using the results from the question about gender identity because it was clear that many people simply did not understand the question. Calling men women and women men, is a deliberate attempt to confuse and fudge the real issue which is that human beings can't change sex.

MagpiePi · 01/06/2026 07:45

According to Google, a trans identifying man is a biological woman who identifies as a man, which is in direct contradiction to what @WallaceinAnderland , @viques and @sabreslot are saying, but then it also says it can also be misused or inverted in a derogatory context.
🤷‍♀️

Google says:

“A trans-identified male usually refers to a transgender man—someone assigned female at birth who lives and identifies as a man. However, the exact usage of the term can vary depending on context: 1, 2]
General/Preferred Usage: Most commonly, the term is used interchangeably with "trans man". For example, the GLAAD Media Reference Guide highlights that a person assigned female at birth but who identifies as a man may use "transgender man" to describe himself. 1, 2]
Alternative/Specific Usage: In some academic, feminist, or policy contexts, it is sometimes used to emphasize the person's biological sex (female) alongside their gender identity (male) to differentiate them from cisgender men. 1, 2, 3, 4]
Derogatory Context: The phrase can occasionally be misused or inverted by specific groups to refer to a transgender woman (a male-to-female individual), to deny their female identity. 1]”

Transgender Terminology - Transgender Trend

An glossary of the transgender terminology which is commonly used and known; an explanation of meanings and how we use the terminology on this site.

https://www.transgendertrend.com/transgender-terminology/

sabreslot · 27/05/2026 13:48

MagpiePi · 27/05/2026 13:42

I still find these terms confusing.

To me, Trans Identifying Man immediately makes me think 'a man who is trans', ie a man pretending to be a woman, whereas it actually means 'a trans person who is identifying as a man' ie a woman pretending to be a man.

It's like one of those 'if John is my mother's uncle and Jane is my brother's grandmother, what relationship is Jane to John?' questions.

It’s not though, I think it’s actually much clearer.

A trans identifying man is a man (original definition) identifying as trans.

It is the term trans woman which is confusing because the term is about a man. So makes no sense.

OP posts:
viques · 27/05/2026 13:48

MagpiePi · 27/05/2026 13:42

I still find these terms confusing.

To me, Trans Identifying Man immediately makes me think 'a man who is trans', ie a man pretending to be a woman, whereas it actually means 'a trans person who is identifying as a man' ie a woman pretending to be a man.

It's like one of those 'if John is my mother's uncle and Jane is my brother's grandmother, what relationship is Jane to John?' questions.

No it means a man who thinks he is trans. The important word is MAN. This is a MAN many of whom try to confuse by not using the word MAN to describe their gender identity in the hope that people think they are not a MAN. But they are.

WallaceinAnderland · 27/05/2026 13:48

MagpiePi · 27/05/2026 13:42

I still find these terms confusing.

To me, Trans Identifying Man immediately makes me think 'a man who is trans', ie a man pretending to be a woman, whereas it actually means 'a trans person who is identifying as a man' ie a woman pretending to be a man.

It's like one of those 'if John is my mother's uncle and Jane is my brother's grandmother, what relationship is Jane to John?' questions.

'Trans Identifying Man immediately makes me think 'a man who is trans', ie a man pretending to be a woman'

This is correct.

spannasaurus · 27/05/2026 13:44

MagpiePi · 27/05/2026 13:42

I still find these terms confusing.

To me, Trans Identifying Man immediately makes me think 'a man who is trans', ie a man pretending to be a woman, whereas it actually means 'a trans person who is identifying as a man' ie a woman pretending to be a man.

It's like one of those 'if John is my mother's uncle and Jane is my brother's grandmother, what relationship is Jane to John?' questions.

Trans identified man is a man pretending to be a woman

MagpiePi · 27/05/2026 13:42

viques · 24/05/2026 16:46

Or better still

Trans identifying Man (TIM)

Trans Identifying Woman (TIW)

which helps to sort out the confusion that some people seem to have in remembering that a transwoman is a man and a transman is a woman.

Edited

I still find these terms confusing.

To me, Trans Identifying Man immediately makes me think 'a man who is trans', ie a man pretending to be a woman, whereas it actually means 'a trans person who is identifying as a man' ie a woman pretending to be a man.

It's like one of those 'if John is my mother's uncle and Jane is my brother's grandmother, what relationship is Jane to John?' questions.

Griselinia · 27/05/2026 13:20

Yes that bloke with the beard seems to just be fucking about with the concept of gender and the meaning of words.

As for school skirts... Schools like to uphold traditions... Skirts are traditional women's wear. Thankfully they are finally catching up to the fact that the world has moved on.

Hair... Again it's the visual differentiation of the sexes thing. Women got long(er), presumably because they are less likely to go bald.

What's interesting I think is why such extreme visual differentiation was so desired in the past, yet nowadays only some people really care.

DressOrSkirt · 27/05/2026 00:03

shuggles · 27/05/2026 00:01

@DressOrSkirt What do you think gender is if not a social construct? Why would one sex be expected to wear something different than the other?

They're not. People make their own choices and decisions about what they wear. Society has no part in it.

School is part of society. And where do you think children get the idea that girls have long hair and boys have short hair?

Again, boys and girls have all sorts of strange beliefs and ideas that don't reflect society.

I've seen dozens of school kids make their ties really short so that it's a little stub. It looks really weird. Where did that idea come from? It definitely didn't come from society because I have never seen anyone wear a tie like that outside of school.

They literally are and I've given examples.

shuggles · 27/05/2026 00:01

@DressOrSkirt What do you think gender is if not a social construct? Why would one sex be expected to wear something different than the other?

They're not. People make their own choices and decisions about what they wear. Society has no part in it.

School is part of society. And where do you think children get the idea that girls have long hair and boys have short hair?

Again, boys and girls have all sorts of strange beliefs and ideas that don't reflect society.

I've seen dozens of school kids make their ties really short so that it's a little stub. It looks really weird. Where did that idea come from? It definitely didn't come from society because I have never seen anyone wear a tie like that outside of school.

DressOrSkirt · 26/05/2026 23:56

shuggles · 26/05/2026 23:51

@DressOrSkirt Skirt. The boys didn't have to wear skirts whereas the girls did, that is separate from a tie that everyone had to wear.

I'm saying that factor is moreso linked to tradition and children not having autonomy. It is not evidence that "gender is a social construct."

Hair. I am giving an example of people who did care about my short hair and calling me a boy for it. You said no-one cares, but plenty of people do.

You said this was at school. Personally, I place very little value on what children do and say. Children do and say stupid stuff all the time, and I don't think the school environment is an accurate reflection of society in any shape or form.

What do you think gender is if not a social construct? Why would one sex be expected to wear something different than the other?

School is part of society. And where do you think children get the idea that girls have long hair and boys have short hair?

WallaceinAnderland · 26/05/2026 23:56

GriseldaandMike · 26/05/2026 23:46

I agree, but some people are trying to argue that it is this one thing or that one thing when the reality is it has more than one meaning common usage.

TRAs often go for a bit of bait and switch using one meaning one minute then using a different one to try to and obscure the truth that sex is binary and immutable.

You have to be able to define things though, especially if you want to make law around it.

Even the Oxford English Dictionary struggles. They have come up with

  • the state of being male or female, particularly when referring to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. It also denotes a broader range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female

The Cambridge Dictionary is even worse

  • a group of people in a society who share particular qualities or ways of behaving which that society associates with being male, female, or another identity
shuggles · 26/05/2026 23:51

@DressOrSkirt Skirt. The boys didn't have to wear skirts whereas the girls did, that is separate from a tie that everyone had to wear.

I'm saying that factor is moreso linked to tradition and children not having autonomy. It is not evidence that "gender is a social construct."

Hair. I am giving an example of people who did care about my short hair and calling me a boy for it. You said no-one cares, but plenty of people do.

You said this was at school. Personally, I place very little value on what children do and say. Children do and say stupid stuff all the time, and I don't think the school environment is an accurate reflection of society in any shape or form.

GriseldaandMike · 26/05/2026 23:46

WallaceinAnderland · 26/05/2026 23:39

Yes but none of those have anything to do with anyone being transgender.

Sex stereotypes are regressive and harmful to both sexes, but more so to women.

In some languages it is part of grammar but again, that relates to sex.

When you try to use gender to describe women, it all becomes a bit odd. Just stick to sex and you're fine. Every woman has a sex.

There is one thing that links all women, across the whole world, throughout all time and in all cultures and that is their sex. Nothing else comes close. No fashion or tradition is worldwide.

If you are using gender to refer to sex then don't use it to support out dated and oppressive stereotypes.

I agree, but some people are trying to argue that it is this one thing or that one thing when the reality is it has more than one meaning common usage.

TRAs often go for a bit of bait and switch using one meaning one minute then using a different one to try to and obscure the truth that sex is binary and immutable.

WallaceinAnderland · 26/05/2026 23:39

GriseldaandMike · 26/05/2026 23:33

Words can have more than one meaning.

Gender can mean a coy euphemism for sex as in "we are having a scan today and hope to find out the babies gender"

Or it can mean a set of stereotypes such as girls are gentle and quiet, whereas boys like rough play. Or liking pink and having long hair are feminine, while liking cars and engineering is masculine.

Or it can a part of grammar in some languages.

No one seems to struggle with other words being multifunctional. Set has more than a dozen definitions.

Yes but none of those have anything to do with anyone being transgender.

Sex stereotypes are regressive and harmful to both sexes, but more so to women.

In some languages it is part of grammar but again, that relates to sex.

When you try to use gender to describe women, it all becomes a bit odd. Just stick to sex and you're fine. Every woman has a sex.

There is one thing that links all women, across the whole world, throughout all time and in all cultures and that is their sex. Nothing else comes close. No fashion or tradition is worldwide.

If you are using gender to refer to sex then don't use it to support out dated and oppressive stereotypes.

DressOrSkirt · 26/05/2026 23:39

shuggles · 26/05/2026 23:30

@DressOrSkirt While this would be ideal, you must live in a different society to me, where I have been told I have to wear makeup up at work because I'm a woman,

I have had maybe half a dozen jobs during my life. In not one of those jobs have women ever been told to wear makeup.

My manager (female) regularly wears no makeup. There isn't a single person who cares.

where I had to wear a skirt to school

That one has changed in recent years. Though what you're talking about here is an issue of children being bound to old traditions, and not having autonomy to choose their own clothing, which is a separate issue and hardly demonstrates that gender is a "social construct."

I was forced to wear a tie to school. That doesn't prove that "ties are a social construct." Indeed - no one in the real world, outside of schools, wears a tie.

and was made fun of as a teen for having 'boy' hair.

Again, this means nothing. School children make fun of other children for just about any reason. It doesn't mean it's a "social construct."

There are many women who have short hair, many people who don't care about your short hair, and many people who may compliment your short hair. Why do these perspectives not take priority over someone who makes fun of your short hair?

  1. Make-up. Ok, but I am saying I have experienced it, and recently.
  1. Skirt. The boys didn't have to wear skirts whereas the girls did, that is separate from a tie that everyone had to wear.
  1. Hair. I am giving an example of people who did care about my short hair and calling me a boy for it. You said no-one cares, but plenty of people do.

These are all examples of gender norms within gender as a social construct.

GriseldaandMike · 26/05/2026 23:33

Words can have more than one meaning.

Gender can mean a coy euphemism for sex as in "we are having a scan today and hope to find out the babies gender"

Or it can mean a set of stereotypes such as girls are gentle and quiet, whereas boys like rough play. Or liking pink and having long hair are feminine, while liking cars and engineering is masculine.

Or it can a part of grammar in some languages.

No one seems to struggle with other words being multifunctional. Set has more than a dozen definitions.

WallaceinAnderland · 26/05/2026 23:33

RhannionKPSS · 26/05/2026 23:05

Here He Is , not ever she

Well yes, but for those people saying that gender is something that can be defined, they would call him 'she' because of gender.

I know it doesn't make sense, that's kind of my point.

shuggles · 26/05/2026 23:30

@DressOrSkirt While this would be ideal, you must live in a different society to me, where I have been told I have to wear makeup up at work because I'm a woman,

I have had maybe half a dozen jobs during my life. In not one of those jobs have women ever been told to wear makeup.

My manager (female) regularly wears no makeup. There isn't a single person who cares.

where I had to wear a skirt to school

That one has changed in recent years. Though what you're talking about here is an issue of children being bound to old traditions, and not having autonomy to choose their own clothing, which is a separate issue and hardly demonstrates that gender is a "social construct."

I was forced to wear a tie to school. That doesn't prove that "ties are a social construct." Indeed - no one in the real world, outside of schools, wears a tie.

and was made fun of as a teen for having 'boy' hair.

Again, this means nothing. School children make fun of other children for just about any reason. It doesn't mean it's a "social construct."

There are many women who have short hair, many people who don't care about your short hair, and many people who may compliment your short hair. Why do these perspectives not take priority over someone who makes fun of your short hair?

RhannionKPSS · 26/05/2026 23:05

WallaceinAnderland · 26/05/2026 22:59

For those that don't want to click the link, here she is

Here He Is , not ever she

IDontHateRainbows · 26/05/2026 23:04

WallaceinAnderland · 26/05/2026 22:54

No. If you look at Alex Drummond for example. Alex is a transwoman but does not use what you would describe as 'female' gender stereotypes. So that does not fit your definition.

https://irisprize.org/people/alex-drummond/

Alex is a pisstaker is what he is.

WallaceinAnderland · 26/05/2026 22:59

For those that don't want to click the link, here she is

AIBU to think sex and gender need different terms if distinct?
WallaceinAnderland · 26/05/2026 22:54

Griselinia · 26/05/2026 20:47

@WallaceinAnderland if there isn't any consciously expressed display of stereotypically gendered clothing or attitude in public or private then it could be said that that individual is opting out of doing so, and i believe there's already a word for that: agender.

As for 'They don't have to mimic being female in order to be considered transwomen. And the same goes the other way' - maybe they do but you just don't see it if you're a colleague rather than a lover.

No. If you look at Alex Drummond for example. Alex is a transwoman but does not use what you would describe as 'female' gender stereotypes. So that does not fit your definition.

https://irisprize.org/people/alex-drummond/

Alex Drummond - Iris Prize

https://irisprize.org/people/alex-drummond/

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