To see benefits as a safety net, not handouts?

And what do you think the reality of that actually means because it will likely mean fewer jobs

You think that NMW should be enough to run a car in addition to paying for the basics? That’s bonkers. A car is not a necessity like housing and food. People who can’t afford one (and many who can) get the bus, walk or cycle.

There needs to be a stop for the low wage economy. NMW should be enough to live on. That's housing, food/clothes and transport (in most cases a car). Then by all means help families with children by giving them extra in child benefit. Tapered to reflect earnings but not as an extra income or a universal payment to everyone.

Then we can look after our most vulnerable properly. Give people who are ill or genuinely unable to work a decent amount to live on.
If someone falls on hard times, give them enough time and support to sort themselves out 18 mounts to 2 years should be sufficient.

Also, so many people on these threads always talk about what they can't do, maybe it's time for people seeking work to think about what they realistically can do. There should be more pride in the ability to support oneself.

@HelenHan67as I said, I paid NI all my working life, happily knowing a portion of it was being used for welfare benefits. I didn't say or infer that people who haven't paid a penny in contributions are any less worthy of welfare benefits than me and dh.

I agree with you entirely and I'm sorry about what you've endured. But even if you hadn't paid in then I wouldn't begrudge you. For example a baby can be born disabled, contribute nothing and I would still want it to be cared for by the state. There's a peculiar notion (and I'm not accusing you of this) that you work hard = you do well. But I believe that lacks nuance and context. People might need benefits for a multitude of reasons: ill health/disability (which can strike at any age and is the one minority you can't be born into), personal circumstances (for example fleeing domestic violence), external factors (like the pandemic causing businesses to close). All of those require a safety net. I wonder if people forget that when they're doing well.

Both dh and I have worked full time since, me aged 16, dh aged 15. However, in my late 50s and dhs early 60s he became very unwell and had to give up work. I had no choice but to give up my job to care for him full time. He receives PIP and ESA Contributions based Support Group and I receive Carer's Allowance. We have paid into the system nearly all of our working lives, as have our parents, grandparents, siblings etc. I feel not one bit of guilt about claiming these sickness benefits, I paid NI knowing a portion of it was being used to help those in need, never thinking that one day it would be us. No one knows what the future holds and people should remember that before they criticise people claiming benefits.

There needs to be a stop for the low wage economy. NMW should be enough to live on. That's housing, food/clothes and transport (in most cases a car). Then by all means help families with children by giving them extra in child benefit. Tapered to reflect earnings but not as an extra income or a universal payment to everyone.

Then we can look after our most vulnerable properly. Give people who are ill or genuinely unable to work a decent amount to live on.
If someone falls on hard times, give them enough time and support to sort themselves out 18 mounts to 2 years should be sufficient.

Also, so many people on these threads always talk about what they can't do, maybe it's time for people seeking work to think about what they realistically can do. There should be more pride in the ability to support oneself.

So who would work the low paid jobs you know like all the crucial jobs that carried on during covid and couldn't shut down as they're so important and needed.

The elephant in the room is that there are not enough jobs for everyone who might need one. This has been true since Thatcher closed the mines.

The post above is entirely correct, why has there been such a push for full time and more full time work instead of enabling everyone to do what they can? To keep those who might care too busy to think and allow a new aristocracy of the feckless who won’t seriously challenge the aristocracy of wealth and power (they think)?

It completely depends on the reason people are claiming those benefits in the first place. For those who cannot work, and will never be able to work, a good state should support those individuals to have a reasonable quality of life.

For those that cannot work, they shouldn’t be in a position whereby they can afford an equivalent (or better) lifestyle than people that do. However, the fault is that of the actual system not those individuals. If your choices are to be able to spend more time with your young children and work 16 hours a week, or go full time and be worse off, I can’t think why people wouldn’t pick the former.

I also think there’s a lot to unpick in terms of the economy. None of these are standalone issues - spiralling housing costs and lack of jobs is a huge factor. 20 years ago, I earned around £14k and could afford to rent a small place on my own, run a car, feed myself reasonably well and still have a social life. I don’t think people on that equivalent salary could do the same today.

At what point is the non-verbal, non-mobile disabled person supposed to make a different "lifestyle choice"?

Unfortunately there are more part time jobs than full time ones . In certain parts of the country rents are so high that people have to claim benefits to make ends meet . So I would say benefits are more of a safety net than a handout .

I think you're right but. And there's always a but. There are some people who go on benefits and expect to stay on them as a lifestyle choice which wasn't the original intention.

The world is changing. In the west we are quite coddled and don’t expect people to make massive efforts to support themselves. Or we wouldn’t have high youth unemployment and simultaneous vacancies in the jobs nobody wants to do. My ancestors walked from northern coalfields to the Kent coalfields when there was no work.

Now we import people who do those jobs until they don’t have to. (Don’t blame them!)

With AI coming you might simplistically think that everyone could share out the reduced work and the whole country do a four day week and pay the unpleasant jobs more. But companies and money don’t work like that. It’s fewer jobs and harder work for the ones that have them. It feels inevitable that we end up with huge numbers doing nothing and the rest working hard to pay for them while the companies compete for their profits.

I’d like to see a more holistic and cohesive set of policies that look at the future world of work rather than the sticking plasters we use now. Would be better for everyone if there were a million people working a 3 day week than half a million working like crazy to support half a million doing nothing. Work is necessary for young people.

Is there anyone on here, who has actually worked in or around the benefit/social housing/ justice system who thinks that multi generational worklessness is NOT an issue?

Because if you have worked in it, like I have, around hugely different areas of the country, I fail to see how you could not see it as an issue. It’s definitely not rare or uncommon or confined to a couple of areas across the country?
The government knows it too. There have been various programs over the last 30 years of my working life to try to address it. They failed because it is a multi faceted issue.
And for all the genuine benefit claimants, many of whom have posted on this thread, your denials about the reality of the system we currently have utterly baffle me. Every single fraudulent claim takes money away from YOU who genuinely need it? The system was supposed to be for people who genuinely need it and the fact is, those people aren’t getting anywhere near enough.
The entire thing needs an enormous overhaul.

Tax their benefits - like they do in Scandi countries. I’m afraid conditions like ADHD claiming PIP payments is a nonsense we cannot afford. Defence spending needs a massive boost, currently there is no money to do this, the NHS and many educational facilities are grossly underfunded. Something has to give.

Tax their benefits - like they do in Scandi countries. I’m afraid conditions like ADHD claiming PIP payments is a nonsense we cannot afford. Defence spending needs a massive boost, currently there is no money to do this, the NHS and many educational facilities are grossly underfunded. Something has to give.

Tax their benefits - like they do in Scandi countries. I’m afraid conditions like ADHD claiming PIP payments is a nonsense we cannot afford. Defence spending needs a massive boost, currently there is no money to do this, the NHS and many educational facilities are grossly underfunded. Something has to give.

YABU universal credit is there to give people on minimum wage a handout and to encourage them to do the minimum wage jobs. It's not just a safety net for people who have fallen on hard times.