To see benefits as a safety net, not handouts?

We don't "know" any such thing.

@inmyhair thats actually not the basic principle of the introduction of welfare state and should not be what benefits are for

they should be below minimum wage and short term. So working should always pay more. None of this choosing 16 hours and expecting state to top you up. None of the keep having children you can’t afford and expect more child benefits, housing eyc

total overhaul needed and back to basic principle of if you want something go work for it

But equally you’re using somebody in a wheelchair as an example, when we know the majority are MH/ND related.

Then they need to negotiate a higher wage with their employers rather than relying on a blanket high NMW which actively dissuades employers from hiring at entry level in the first place.

Well said. I also saw the posts about setting up a cleaning company. Just get some bleach from Home Bargains and pop an ad on FB... and that is what they said too 😂 They also thought anyone would be raking it in within a week. Total bull.

DM has a cleaning company, and she now gets 80+ applicants when she puts a vacancy out... and this could be for just a few hours a week. Not FT work. She has plenty of applications from graduates. People are desperate and are just going for anything.
And because she had the pick of the bunch, she interviews people with a lot of cleaning experience, and not graduates due to them being a flight risk.

I live rurally thanks. NMW should be just high enough to pay for the absolute necessities, same as benefits. And that does not include a car. Some people do of course need a car for their job but that is between them and their employer, not something that should factor in when setting minimum wage.

Lots of people live in rural areas with little or no public transport. Walking or cycling to work isn't an option if your work is, say, 30 miles away or requires travel throughout the day (for example many carer roles only accept drivers with their own car).

Keeping NMW artificially high is what keeps people out of the jobs market, because as soon as you make it uneconomic to hire people, rather than say invest in automation, or move your production overseas, then guess which route employers take? Life on NMW should be hard, it’s what makes people to strive for better.

But equally you’re using somebody in a wheelchair as an example, when we know the majority are MH/ND related.

Do you honestly not realise that some people don't live on a bus route? (Or even a train route, come to that.) If they work too far away to walk or cycle, what are they supposed to do? And a lot of people fall into this category.

And what about people in jobs such as care work, who often have large areas to cover and who aren't given enough travel time between appointments to walk, cycle or bus it? Similarly cleaners who have equipment to lug between cleans? Mobile hairdressers? Gardeners/handymen?

Sounds like you've led a sheltered life, or lived in a town or city all your life, or both. For very many people a car is indeed a necessity.

You think that NMW should be enough to run a car in addition to paying for the basics? That’s bonkers. A car is not a necessity like housing and food. People who can’t afford one (and many who can) get the bus, walk or cycle.

I totally agree with most of these suggestions, but just wanted to point something out re people talking about what they can't do. Frequently they aren't being defeatist or making excuses, but are pointing out the genuine difficulties lots of people face, in the hope certain realities might start to percolate through to the hard of thinking (I don't mean you, I'm speaking generally about how these threads tend to go.)

No one is saying it's impossible for, say, disabled people to get a job, but there's a huge number of people on MN who seem extremely ignorant of the limitations some disabled people face. A lot of morons people post along the lines of 'But work will make you feel better! A few weeks of walking up three flights of stairs in an office with no wheelchair access, and you won't even need your wheelchair any more! You're just being negative! It's all a matter of mindset! You just don't want to work because you're rolling in it on PIP [!!] and get your nails done every Thursday!' OK, I've exaggerated somewhat there for dramatic effect, but you get my general point - it's important to challenge the more ignorant/clueless narratives, and in that context saying certain things aren't possible isn't negativity, it's realism.

Similarly when people are struggling to find work for genuine reasons, there's so much 'There are plenty of jobs, there must be because just the other day my local cafe was advertising for someone to clear the tables', 'They're not trying hard enough, otherwise they'd have found a job by now' (according to some recent figures many job seekers in the UK send out 50 to 100 applications before they finally strike it lucky, employers are receiving 20–50+ applications on average for each vacancy they advertise, and graduate roles can attract 140+ applicants each), 'In my day you went into every business in town with a CV until someone agreed to hire you', 'They can just retrain' (sometimes true, but takes time), and in one memorable example last weekend, 'Why don't they just set up a cleaning company, they'd be raking it in overnight and if anyone disagrees with me they're just not go-getting enough!'

The sheer ignorance and prejudice some people post on MN (again I don't mean you) needs challenging, and some so-called excuses are actually valid reasons. When people point that out, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are being negative or defeatist although I get how it could seem that way.

my location is between my job and my partner's.
I am not minimum wage but many junior staff trying to build a career are very close to it.
It's not uncommon for career jobs to be lower paid and not uncommon for partners to work in different cities.

Would you rather the women just took what she could get near her husband's job and forget about having a career. Maybe just make some babies instead

Actually, I think we need to address the cost of housing and the utter lack of genuinely affordable housing before anything else.

Do you honestly not realise that some people don't live on a bus route? (Or even a train route, come to that.) If they work too far away to walk or cycle, what are they supposed to do? And a lot of people fall into this category.

And what about people in jobs such as care work, who often have large areas to cover and who aren't given enough travel time between appointments to walk, cycle or bus it? Similarly cleaners who have equipment to lug between cleans? Mobile hairdressers? Gardeners/handymen?

Sounds like you've led a sheltered life, or lived in a town or city all your life, or both. For very many people a car is indeed a necessity.

What’s that got to do with it? You’ve chosen where you live, and chosen where you work, knowing that you will need a car to get to work. If you were only capable of getting a NMW job you would make very different choices.

I wondered how long it'd take the what about crowd. Don't be so obtuse, you know perfectly well I wasn't referring anyone with a serious disability. Those aren't choices of any kind.

You think that NMW should be enough to run a car in addition to paying for the basics? That’s bonkers. A car is not a necessity like housing and food. People who can’t afford one (and many who can) get the bus, walk or cycle.

If I left for my work now on public transport it would take 14 hours.
Edit to add: it's a 40min drive (many sections not accessible to cycles)

I totally agree with most of these suggestions, but just wanted to point something out re people talking about what they can't do. Frequently they aren't being defeatist or making excuses, but are pointing out the genuine difficulties lots of people face, in the hope certain realities might start to percolate through to the hard of thinking (I don't mean you, I'm speaking generally about how these threads tend to go.)

No one is saying it's impossible for, say, disabled people to get a job, but there's a huge number of people on MN who seem extremely ignorant of the limitations some disabled people face. A lot of morons people post along the lines of 'But work will make you feel better! A few weeks of walking up three flights of stairs in an office with no wheelchair access, and you won't even need your wheelchair any more! You're just being negative! It's all a matter of mindset! You just don't want to work because you're rolling in it on PIP [!!] and get your nails done every Thursday!' OK, I've exaggerated somewhat there for dramatic effect, but you get my general point - it's important to challenge the more ignorant/clueless narratives, and in that context saying certain things aren't possible isn't negativity, it's realism.

Similarly when people are struggling to find work for genuine reasons, there's so much 'There are plenty of jobs, there must be because just the other day my local cafe was advertising for someone to clear the tables', 'They're not trying hard enough, otherwise they'd have found a job by now' (according to some recent figures many job seekers in the UK send out 50 to 100 applications before they finally strike it lucky, employers are receiving 20–50+ applications on average for each vacancy they advertise, and graduate roles can attract 140+ applicants each), 'In my day you went into every business in town with a CV until someone agreed to hire you', 'They can just retrain' (sometimes true, but takes time), and in one memorable example last weekend, 'Why don't they just set up a cleaning company, they'd be raking it in overnight and if anyone disagrees with me they're just not go-getting enough!'

The sheer ignorance and prejudice some people post on MN (again I don't mean you) needs challenging, and some so-called excuses are actually valid reasons. When people point that out, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are being negative or defeatist although I get how it could seem that way.

You think that NMW should be enough to run a car in addition to paying for the basics? That’s bonkers. A car is not a necessity like housing and food. People who can’t afford one (and many who can) get the bus, walk or cycle.

There needs to be a stop for the low wage economy. NMW should be enough to live on. That's housing, food/clothes and transport (in most cases a car). Then by all means help families with children by giving them extra in child benefit. Tapered to reflect earnings but not as an extra income or a universal payment to everyone.

Then we can look after our most vulnerable properly. Give people who are ill or genuinely unable to work a decent amount to live on.
If someone falls on hard times, give them enough time and support to sort themselves out 18 mounts to 2 years should be sufficient.

Also, so many people on these threads always talk about what they can't do, maybe it's time for people seeking work to think about what they realistically can do. There should be more pride in the ability to support oneself.

Do you honestly not realise that some people don't live on a bus route? (Or even a train route, come to that.) If they work too far away to walk or cycle, what are they supposed to do? And a lot of people fall into this category.

And what about people in jobs such as care work, who often have large areas to cover and who aren't given enough travel time between appointments to walk, cycle or bus it? Similarly cleaners who have equipment to lug between cleans? Mobile hairdressers? Gardeners/handymen?

Sounds like you've led a sheltered life, or lived in a town or city all your life, or both. For very many people a car is indeed a necessity.

You think that NMW should be enough to run a car in addition to paying for the basics? That’s bonkers. A car is not a necessity like housing and food. People who can’t afford one (and many who can) get the bus, walk or cycle.