To see benefits as a safety net, not handouts?

I have worked with hundreds of families who have never worked. It may be localised to my area but I doubt it.

Im sorry your not making sense ?
PIP is awarded on need not condition
If a person meets the criteria than they can clsim regardless of where they live or how much money they have in the bank.

If it's not applicable to everyone than it isn't a safety net it's a handout.

I mean David Cameron profoundly disbled child was awarded DLA so it cant be anything to do with class
DLA and PIP have differrent criteria
And whilst your right both Autism amd Epillepy are llife long condtions
They are both conditions that vary greatly in how rhey impact a person
My oldest son has type1 diabetes this is also life long he isnt eligible for PIP either
If you are able to indedepently care for yourself , prepare food , independently undertake a journey from A to B you are unlikely to be eligible for PIP regardless of what " Class" you are.

It's classicism I'll give you a couple of anecdotal examples of this. There's a guy I know he has the same education level as me (masters degree), he has the same earning power as me but he lives in a better area than me and pays 1/10th the rent I did, why? He was born in a council house and was provided a council home with below market rent when he became 18 he had a kid which he didn't want with a woman he was unmarried too and because he was already on the system they got extra benefits. I was born in a rather sought after area of London and I'm not one of sixteen children.

Another example: I'm epileptic and my brother has Aspergers. When we were little mum got Invalid Carers Allowance and we had a lifetime award because epilepsy and autism don't go away. When we became 16 that turned into DLA. Around 2004 the government decided to change the criteria for DLA so my brother and I lost our lifetime award entirely, apparently we weren't disabled enough. I fought that for years with the justification of 'well you're well enough to work' as the justification. Well duh? How else would I survive?

When Covid rolled around like many people I lost my job. It didn't take me long to get a new one but when I applied for JSA I was refused because "you'll have no problem finding work and you've got enough saved up to keep you going".

Meanwhile you've got people like my DH former friend who is 'disabled' like all of his family, unemployed and borderline illiterate and because all his family are on benefits for various things (ADHD, Autism, BPD). He gets benefits and then flies off to Japan for 90 days. Happily bragging about it.

Tell me you know fuck all about addiction without saying you know fuck all about addiction...

I've known many an addict during the course of my working life. I've never met one who hasn't had a significant history of abuse, deprivation, etc and many of them have had underlying MH issues and use drugs and/or alcohol as a form of self-medication.

Class?? Give over. Benefits are given according to your income and capability to work. What ‘class’ you are is irrelevant. If you’re struggling financially fill the form for Universal Credit.

https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit/how-to-claim

Punishing children for choices their parents make and shunning them is something that needs to be left in the 50's.

There are also other reasons why someone may be unable to work. I'm not too ill or disabled to work but I have a disabled child as an example.

Can you explain?

In theory you are absolutely right they are a safety net. In reality they very much rely on class. They won't EVER give someone like me benefits even though I'm entitled to them.

The UK benefits system differs significantly from the "Scandi" (Nordic) model. While the UK relies heavily on flat-rate, means-tested safety nets (Universal Credit), Scandinavian countries use generous, insurance-based in-work benefits tied to previous earnings, actively penalising inactivity and making it far more beneficial to work. However universal in-work benefits include heavily subsidized state childcare, and "flexi-jobs" for disabled workers. There is an expectation that everyone who can participtes in the labour market as part of one's duty as a citizen. There is a profound and deeply institutionalised social stigma in Scandinavian countries against individuals who are capable of working but choose not to. It is viewed as a violation of the social contract.

I can remember that idea of a contract from the 1950s when we children were forbidden to pay with those of a neighbour who chose not to work. We need to get back to that. Benefits should never be a substitite for work except for people who are genuinely too ill or disabled to work. The bar is too low and the entire system needs a shake up.

It is atrocious that a single person working full time on NMW is barely scraping by!
I know a lady who has 20 years of experience working with horses. She is highly qualified, yet earns only slightly above NMW.
She is also single.
She lives hand to mouth, has to rely on her parents to help her when occasional expenses come in, had to ask her parents to lend her enough money to buy an old 2nd hand car when her car was not economical to repair anymore.
Her boots have holes in them, she can't afford to heat her one bedroomed flat, she scans the supermarkets for yellow sticker foods, and has to resort to working 60 to 80 hours a week to try to keep her head above water.
She now has multiple health issues from the nature of her work yet doesn't qualify for PIP, and is left with no option but to keep going.
Her morale is very low.
Her wages are standard for her profession, so even if she did go elsewhere, the pay likely wouldn't increase.
Her only other option is to work in a completely different field, where she would probably earn NMW.
The COL is too high for most single people to afford to live.
It's 2026 and some women are holding onto relationships that have run their course, or in some cases, are toxic, because they cannot see how to make ends meet as a single woman!
No one should feel forced by finances to remain in a relationship in order to be able to afford basic bills and eat every day!!

I agree. Not Bristol, but when I first moved out I was earning £19,000/year and my rent for a 1 bed flat was £550/month (in around 2003). Tight, but perfectly doable.

The same flat was recently rented out for £1,200/month. The current salary for the job I was doing back then is around £25,000/year.

That’s the issue. It’s not that people aren’t working hard enough. It’s that costs for the basics have completely outstripped pay.

Plentiful and bought-by-those-fortunate-enough-to-have-a-secure-tenancy, council housing! No one forced tenants to buy, but human nature being what it is…. Many who bought were better off tenants, on the nicer estates, who could have bought privately. They would have become tenants before lettings policies were based on need. I remember my manager at the time being very happy at his bargain buy.

I later worked in social housing, and thought when Blair was elected in 97 he’d stop Right to Buy. But he didn’t. Housing associations and other social housing providers were expected to replace much of the housing stock, but they didn’t. Hence the shortage of affordable, secure rentals now.

I think you’ve jumped the gun. The comment I’m replying to is no disabilities, no dependents etc working a minimum wage job and how they are supposed to get by with no benefits. I’ve been in that position and am replying how I managed it.

Please tell me how I can talk myself out of multiple organ failure, brain damage, bipolar and bpd id love to know?

I think we’re going to have to disagree. I was single, no dependents, minimum wage job. Even less in one job because it was cash in hand. Lived in one room.

Now I have children. Husband. Elderly parents. I could not do what I did 25 years ago. That’s the difference for me.

Imagine if everyone thought they were too good for minimum wage jobs!

Or, let's look at it in a happier light. Imagine if nobody had any adverse events, low-level disabilities, health problems, trauma, imagine if we could all just pull ourselves up by our bootstraps and "better ourselves"?

Truth is, I've dug myself out of a difficult situation in recent years, no need to go into too many details. And I still don't think that I did it so everyone else can too, because I recognise my privilege (own house, supportive family, education) and my frankly damagingly (to myself) tenacious autistic personality. Never giving up is not always the best thing to do.

Tbh your neighbour isn't getting disability benefits because he's an "alcoholic". It'll be because of how his health conditions affect him, like everyone else who claims PIP etc, no matter how much individuals approve or otherwise of how those health conditions come about. Alcohol addiction isn't about "choosing" or being motivated to change. Do you think people want that kind of grim decline and painful death? It's not pretty, let's say, and I doubt it's the thought of all that lovely PIP and LCWRA money that stops people wanting to recover.

Also interested, since you support families with SEN, to know how you think they should avoid that cliff edge. How are they to prepare when, by definition, having a child or children with disability often means parents can't work or can't work very much. It sounds as though you think they should be doing more - what does that look like?

Not always.

I do completely agree. However, when you have only yourself to look after I think there is always a way.

Yeah, I used to live quite happily on NMW. Now it is not enough, and anyone on NMW is somehow at fault for not trying hard enough to better themselves.

Anyone else? Anyone at all, regardless of current or past circumstances? They could all do what you did?

My point is that NMW should be enough to live on. It used to be. Some people are not capable of more, and they should not have to live in poverty.

I think there always needs to be an element of helping yourself out. I wouldn’t rely on anyone but myself. I’ve struggled and worked quite a few jobs to get me through. I’d expect anyone else to do the same.