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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To see benefits as a safety net, not handouts?

411 replies

ForGreyStork · 23/05/2026 14:23

It’s the way benefits are talked about. To me, they’re part of a social security system -a safety net that people may need at different points in life, rather than “gifts” or handouts.
I also wonder whether increasing conditions and restrictions risk undermining that safety net over time.

AIBU?

OP posts:
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6
HobGobblynne · 25/05/2026 17:10

FernandoSor · 24/05/2026 16:58

Then they need to negotiate a higher wage with their employers rather than relying on a blanket high NMW which actively dissuades employers from hiring at entry level in the first place.

Why would an employer want to negotiate a higher wage with someone living rurally, when they could just hire someone who can drive (or more easily access public transport) for less. That makes no sense.

Locutus2000 · 25/05/2026 17:03

DefiantRabbit9 · 25/05/2026 09:27

It's classicism I'll give you a couple of anecdotal examples of this. There's a guy I know he has the same education level as me (masters degree), he has the same earning power as me but he lives in a better area than me and pays 1/10th the rent I did, why? He was born in a council house and was provided a council home with below market rent when he became 18 he had a kid which he didn't want with a woman he was unmarried too and because he was already on the system they got extra benefits. I was born in a rather sought after area of London and I'm not one of sixteen children.

Another example: I'm epileptic and my brother has Aspergers. When we were little mum got Invalid Carers Allowance and we had a lifetime award because epilepsy and autism don't go away. When we became 16 that turned into DLA. Around 2004 the government decided to change the criteria for DLA so my brother and I lost our lifetime award entirely, apparently we weren't disabled enough. I fought that for years with the justification of 'well you're well enough to work' as the justification. Well duh? How else would I survive?

When Covid rolled around like many people I lost my job. It didn't take me long to get a new one but when I applied for JSA I was refused because "you'll have no problem finding work and you've got enough saved up to keep you going".

Meanwhile you've got people like my DH former friend who is 'disabled' like all of his family, unemployed and borderline illiterate and because all his family are on benefits for various things (ADHD, Autism, BPD). He gets benefits and then flies off to Japan for 90 days. Happily bragging about it.

Edited

You can't just 'fly off to Japan for 90 days' if on UC.

XenoBitch · 25/05/2026 16:59

youalright · 25/05/2026 16:55

You're being ridiculous if you are entitled to benefits you will get them why on earth do you think your class would prevent this

I don't recall having to say what class I was when applying for benefits 😆

youalright · 25/05/2026 16:55

DefiantRabbit9 · 25/05/2026 04:48

In theory you are absolutely right they are a safety net. In reality they very much rely on class. They won't EVER give someone like me benefits even though I'm entitled to them.

You're being ridiculous if you are entitled to benefits you will get them why on earth do you think your class would prevent this

lavenderscenteddrawerliners · 25/05/2026 16:41

MsGreying · 25/05/2026 14:22

They should build some social housing and rent it out at affordable rates.
That's the way to try and solve that.

The problem being an awful lot of people came across the channel today who'll get legal aid (thanks tax payers) to ensure they can have a free house.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats-last-7-days

Don't tell me they'll get a job. Our young people need jobs.

This country is broken.

Who is paying for this "some social housing"? It's very expensive and lists are ever growing because of the increase in private rentals and general COL. In my city so many professionals have been granted statutory homeless status because their landlords have given them notice and they either can't find or can't afford another property. If rents were capped and living wages were paid there would be much less reliance on UC top ups

OneTealShaker · 25/05/2026 14:46

MsGreying · 25/05/2026 14:22

They should build some social housing and rent it out at affordable rates.
That's the way to try and solve that.

The problem being an awful lot of people came across the channel today who'll get legal aid (thanks tax payers) to ensure they can have a free house.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats-last-7-days

Don't tell me they'll get a job. Our young people need jobs.

This country is broken.

Who should build social housing? Who is paying to build it? Those paying for people to live on benefits and subsidized housing are not a cash machine.

Agree about the entitlement issue and the illegal immigration. The country is broken.

MsGreying · 25/05/2026 14:22

OneTealShaker · 23/05/2026 16:30

And? Is the landlord supposed to let these people live in their property for free?

They should build some social housing and rent it out at affordable rates.
That's the way to try and solve that.

The problem being an awful lot of people came across the channel today who'll get legal aid (thanks tax payers) to ensure they can have a free house.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats-last-7-days

Don't tell me they'll get a job. Our young people need jobs.

This country is broken.

Small boat arrivals: last 7 days

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats-last-7-days

thatsgotit · 25/05/2026 12:36

RubyPowderPuff · 24/05/2026 17:20

There a plenty of jobs people will be unable to do do due to their disability. And that's fine we need to acknowledge this and move on.
But equally there are plenty of jobs that someone who is in a wheelchair or has social anxiety could do. We need to shift the focus onto these types of jobs. Yes, we will push people out of their comfort zone, so what?

I'm not suggesting people shouldn't have to push themselves out of their comfort zones. We all have to do that from time to time. But where disabilities are concerned, people have differing thresholds beyond which they would struggle to actually hold down a job or be effective employees. Not suggesting that means people shouldn't try at all, merely that matching people with disabilities or conditions to jobs they can do isn't a straightforward matter.

CatkinToadflax · 25/05/2026 12:09

As others have said, benefits are awarded based on need not diagnosis. Class doesn’t remotely come into it!

We have just had my son’s LCWRA decision overturned at Mandatory Reconsideration stage. I complained about the assessment immediately after it took place because the assessor clearly had no idea what he was talking about and had preconceived ideas about my son that were completely incorrect. There was also someone on here who claimed to be an assessor who made up a wonderful little story in her head about my son being perfectly fine to work, and who also didn’t have a clue. We got the decision overturned because we had proof of my son’s needs and of the assessor talking bollocks.

Coffeeandbooks88 · 25/05/2026 11:16

DefiantRabbit9 · 25/05/2026 09:27

It's classicism I'll give you a couple of anecdotal examples of this. There's a guy I know he has the same education level as me (masters degree), he has the same earning power as me but he lives in a better area than me and pays 1/10th the rent I did, why? He was born in a council house and was provided a council home with below market rent when he became 18 he had a kid which he didn't want with a woman he was unmarried too and because he was already on the system they got extra benefits. I was born in a rather sought after area of London and I'm not one of sixteen children.

Another example: I'm epileptic and my brother has Aspergers. When we were little mum got Invalid Carers Allowance and we had a lifetime award because epilepsy and autism don't go away. When we became 16 that turned into DLA. Around 2004 the government decided to change the criteria for DLA so my brother and I lost our lifetime award entirely, apparently we weren't disabled enough. I fought that for years with the justification of 'well you're well enough to work' as the justification. Well duh? How else would I survive?

When Covid rolled around like many people I lost my job. It didn't take me long to get a new one but when I applied for JSA I was refused because "you'll have no problem finding work and you've got enough saved up to keep you going".

Meanwhile you've got people like my DH former friend who is 'disabled' like all of his family, unemployed and borderline illiterate and because all his family are on benefits for various things (ADHD, Autism, BPD). He gets benefits and then flies off to Japan for 90 days. Happily bragging about it.

Edited

Can I point out that autism is a disability? Although I do think if you say you (general you) have autism and it doesn't affect you then I am sceptical if you actually have it. My son is still not speaking much at four and I will eat my hat if he doesn't get a diagnosis. Currently waiting on a DLA decision. Maybe you should apply again?

x2boys · 25/05/2026 11:06

DefiantRabbit9 · 25/05/2026 10:56

Then by definition it is not a safety net. It is an exclusatory system.

As c
It stands there is an assessment process for a person to undertske to see if they meet the criteria set by PIP if they dont they wont be eligible
If a oerson feels the asssement is wrong , there is slso an appeals system.

LadyGaGasPokerFace · 25/05/2026 11:03

dancehysterical22 · 24/05/2026 07:27

.

Yes it did happen. I live in a deprived town. So you can fuck off with your useless sarcastic pie chart 🙄 so original

x2boys · 25/05/2026 10:59

DefiantRabbit9 · 25/05/2026 10:45

I get that but if the system is built to be a safety net than it shouldn't matter who's got it worse it should matter that they need support. I am talking in general to be clear.

To some extent it is because disabillty benefits are paid at different levels
But unfortunatley there are people who miss because their level if need isnt aa great aa others and i agree thats not fair .

DefiantRabbit9 · 25/05/2026 10:56

ThingsAreNotWhatTheyWere · 25/05/2026 10:51

It is there, based on need, be that financial or disability-based. Unfortunately it can't catch everyone so some will fall the wrong side of the line, which I appreciate is tough if you feel you need help but can't get help.

Then by definition it is not a safety net. It is an exclusatory system.

ThingsAreNotWhatTheyWere · 25/05/2026 10:51

DefiantRabbit9 · 25/05/2026 10:45

I get that but if the system is built to be a safety net than it shouldn't matter who's got it worse it should matter that they need support. I am talking in general to be clear.

It is there, based on need, be that financial or disability-based. Unfortunately it can't catch everyone so some will fall the wrong side of the line, which I appreciate is tough if you feel you need help but can't get help.

DefiantRabbit9 · 25/05/2026 10:45

ThingsAreNotWhatTheyWere · 25/05/2026 10:34

It's not as straightforward as that, though. I have a chromosome disorder which has left me with a growing number of problems, but it is unlikely that two people with the same condition will present in exactly the same way. Prior to my stroke, I would not have qualified (as although I was on medication and attending regular appointments, I was living independently and able to work full time). Ithink was the stroke on top of everything else that changed things.

I get that but if the system is built to be a safety net than it shouldn't matter who's got it worse it should matter that they need support. I am talking in general to be clear.

DefiantRabbit9 · 25/05/2026 10:41

x2boys · 25/05/2026 10:33

And having the same condtion doesnt mean two people have the same needs
One persons needs could be a lot greater than amother persons.

Well that's not a safety net. Just to be clear I'm talking about the welfare system in general not uniquely disabilities. How would you discern who is more deserving? because that's really what it comes down to. It also gives incentives to not improve themselves.

ThingsAreNotWhatTheyWere · 25/05/2026 10:34

DefiantRabbit9 · 25/05/2026 10:22

A safety net implies that no matter your circumstances you can get help. So if you're diagnosed with a condition that is disabling or you lose your job or god forbid you lose your home you should be entitled to help, that's the point of a safety net. If two people have the same condition for applying for benefits but one is refused it's not a safety net.

It's not as straightforward as that, though. I have a chromosome disorder which has left me with a growing number of problems, but it is unlikely that two people with the same condition will present in exactly the same way. Prior to my stroke, I would not have qualified (as although I was on medication and attending regular appointments, I was living independently and able to work full time). Ithink was the stroke on top of everything else that changed things.

x2boys · 25/05/2026 10:33

DefiantRabbit9 · 25/05/2026 10:22

A safety net implies that no matter your circumstances you can get help. So if you're diagnosed with a condition that is disabling or you lose your job or god forbid you lose your home you should be entitled to help, that's the point of a safety net. If two people have the same condition for applying for benefits but one is refused it's not a safety net.

And having the same condtion doesnt mean two people have the same needs
One persons needs could be a lot greater than amother persons.

x2boys · 25/05/2026 10:31

DefiantRabbit9 · 25/05/2026 10:22

A safety net implies that no matter your circumstances you can get help. So if you're diagnosed with a condition that is disabling or you lose your job or god forbid you lose your home you should be entitled to help, that's the point of a safety net. If two people have the same condition for applying for benefits but one is refused it's not a safety net.

But conditions can vary enormoursly in how they impact a person
Thats how it works 💁

DefiantRabbit9 · 25/05/2026 10:22

x2boys · 25/05/2026 09:58

Im sorry your not making sense ?
PIP is awarded on need not condition
If a person meets the criteria than they can clsim regardless of where they live or how much money they have in the bank.

A safety net implies that no matter your circumstances you can get help. So if you're diagnosed with a condition that is disabling or you lose your job or god forbid you lose your home you should be entitled to help, that's the point of a safety net. If two people have the same condition for applying for benefits but one is refused it's not a safety net.

Pickledonion1999 · 25/05/2026 10:08

x2boys · 25/05/2026 09:47

I mean David Cameron profoundly disbled child was awarded DLA so it cant be anything to do with class
DLA and PIP have differrent criteria
And whilst your right both Autism amd Epillepy are llife long condtions
They are both conditions that vary greatly in how rhey impact a person
My oldest son has type1 diabetes this is also life long he isnt eligible for PIP either
If you are able to indedepently care for yourself , prepare food , independently undertake a journey from A to B you are unlikely to be eligible for PIP regardless of what " Class" you are.

Exactly. My brother has lifelong epilepsy but is well controlled, has never felt the need to even try to claim a disability benefit. He has limitations of course and cannot drive so is provided with a rail card. He has worked constantly since the age of 16( now 60). He has had to change careers due to his epilepsy. On the other hand you can have people who have multiple seizures a day and the impact on their life is huge.

ByGraptharsHammer · 25/05/2026 10:06

The basic issue is need vs contribution. People who are paying tax are the contributors, but in terms of what they get, the level of benefits is poor. During COVID this basically got admitted with people being paid huge amounts on furlough.

Yes there should be a greater emphasis on people working but government of all kinds has tried that. If you really wanted to change things you would start with very basic benefits for none contributing people and those who had worked would get much more. Other European countries do this but we do not. As it is we have a system that seems to incentivise behaviour that encourages a degree of dependency. Need expands to fit the criteria. Thats the issue.

I guess what will happen is that more and more criteria are put in to prevent access.

thatsgotit · 25/05/2026 10:06

Talk of property price increases got me wondering what my old flat from back in my single days (late nineties when I was living/working in the home counties) was worth now. It's a nice flat but only a small 1-bedroom one. Just looked up its current estimated value online and there's no way I could have afforded it now if I was the age I was then and single, especially as pay rises in my line of work haven't kept pace with inflation. I doubt many young single people now who are trying to get a foot on the ladder (as I was) could afford it, at least not without having to spend yonks saving for the deposit beforehand. And if it's being rented out I probably couldn't have even afforded to rent it at today's likely rate.

Absolute madness when people who are working and striving aren't even getting paid enough to put bricks and mortar around themselves. And as per usual, so many on this thread and others like it aren't channelling their ire in the right direction, i.e. Britain's low pay culture, actual (as opposed to perceived) benefit cheats, and the various governments over the years (not just the Tories) that have got us into this state. Instead apparently the solution is to make the poor even poorer.

The poster below was published in 1929. How depressing that society seems to have learned nothing in almost a hundred years.

To see benefits as a safety net, not handouts?
Pickledonion1999 · 25/05/2026 10:04

DefiantRabbit9 · 25/05/2026 09:27

It's classicism I'll give you a couple of anecdotal examples of this. There's a guy I know he has the same education level as me (masters degree), he has the same earning power as me but he lives in a better area than me and pays 1/10th the rent I did, why? He was born in a council house and was provided a council home with below market rent when he became 18 he had a kid which he didn't want with a woman he was unmarried too and because he was already on the system they got extra benefits. I was born in a rather sought after area of London and I'm not one of sixteen children.

Another example: I'm epileptic and my brother has Aspergers. When we were little mum got Invalid Carers Allowance and we had a lifetime award because epilepsy and autism don't go away. When we became 16 that turned into DLA. Around 2004 the government decided to change the criteria for DLA so my brother and I lost our lifetime award entirely, apparently we weren't disabled enough. I fought that for years with the justification of 'well you're well enough to work' as the justification. Well duh? How else would I survive?

When Covid rolled around like many people I lost my job. It didn't take me long to get a new one but when I applied for JSA I was refused because "you'll have no problem finding work and you've got enough saved up to keep you going".

Meanwhile you've got people like my DH former friend who is 'disabled' like all of his family, unemployed and borderline illiterate and because all his family are on benefits for various things (ADHD, Autism, BPD). He gets benefits and then flies off to Japan for 90 days. Happily bragging about it.

Edited

You would not be refused JSA as long as you had worked and paid NI contributions. It sounds like you may have applied for the wrong benefit ( universal credit ? ) rather than contributions based JSA ?

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