To ask to speak to a doctor ?

Hi OP, sorry I didn’t want to read and run.

My experience is slightly different as I have 0 medical background and no idea what more I could have done in hindsight. I received a call that my estranged relative was in hospital on a Thursday, went up to see them on the Friday. He was in the exact same way (also an alcoholic for many years) but their primary concern was end stage cancer. I never saw the same nurse / doctor the entire weekend I was there and he too couldn’t eat or drink, also just left there with unopened food on the table. I kept asking for the doctor and after two days of pressing they finally sent someone on the Sunday who gave me maybe 2 minutes of his time, told me exactly what all the nurses etc were telling me. He told me there are no doctors in over the weekend and that he was basically covering across departments until they’re back on the Monday. Monday came, spoke to the registrar and palliative care as well as SALT referrals were made. But the gist I got was that you’re getting no answers over the weekend as the doctors that are actually looking after your relatives aren’t there and nobody wants to speak on their behalf.

marthas law should be accessible directly (a key point is that you don’t have to access via the medical/nursing teams) I hope you get somewhere soon 😢 phone switchboard if not

Would you be prepared to say which hospital? Someone might be able to help you track down the right number.

You can ring switchboard and ask to be put through to outreach either on their phone or bleep

Hoping this might be of help -

To invoke Martha's Rule in the NHS, follow these steps: 1]
Speak to the ward team: First, raise your concerns with the nurse, doctor, or ward manager currently caring for you or your loved one.
Contact the rapid review team: If your concerns are not addressed, call the hospital’s dedicated critical care outreach team (often called 'Call 4 Concern') for an independent second opinion.
Every NHS acute trust has a dedicated contact number for this, which is displayed on ward posters and leaflets. Ask your ward nurse or check the NHS Martha's Rule Information for details.

It seems that a large part of the NHS closes over the weekend, especially a Bank holiday one. When my husband was chronically ill following a heart attack we were certainly led to believe there was one doctor covering the hospital. I hope you manage to get some help for your brother. At least he has you to advocate for him.

Agreed. Everyone has the same human rights.

However, it sounds like your brother has a life worth fighting for.

Everyone’s life is worth fighting for.

Oh op, I could cry for you and your brother. I know how desperate it feels to see someone deteriorating in front of your eyes, with no-one seemingly trying to do anything about it. You feel so helpless, and it must be even worse if you have a fair idea of what’s going on, and are aware of things the medical staff could be trying. Information about Martha’s Rule states:

If your concerns are not resolved, look for the Martha's Rule/Call 4 Concern posters or leaflets on the ward, which will provide a dedicated 24/7 phone number or point of contact.

I’ve just googled the Martha’s Rule contact number for my local hospital, so you should be able to do the same for the hospital your brother’s in. Request a rapid review of your brother’s case. I really hope that you get listened to soon by someone who can do something about his awful situation.

The nurses could escalate up their own management chain to a more senior nurse in the hospital. Have they not done this?

Email now to: CEO, Trust Clinical Director and copied to your MP. That will get things moving. A grunt will be checking the inboxes even at weekends/bank holidays.

It's a fucking disgrace.

Meanwhile, ask the ward sister to record in the notes that you are concerned that the seriousness of his condition is not being dealt with, that you have requested appropriate clinical intervention and specialost review and no action has been taken.

Wind em up and watch em go. It shouldn't have to be necessary but it is.

i think context is important as is quality of life. Some alcoholics are stabilised through meds only to life a life of misery and poverty along with humiliation.

However, it sounds like your brother has a life worth fighting for. Apologies if I sounded callous and wish him and you the best of luck in getting through this. And yes, don’t be scared to push the docs, sometimes they need it.

Is he having obs done? Has he been written up for a drip for dehydration?

My alcoholic relative was in AMU for days, waiting for a bed on gastro, didn't make it onto a ward before they then developed pneumonia and went up to ICU on oxygen. Under 60 years old.

They go downhill so fast.

Have you spoken to the on-call hospital manager?

Which hospital is this, there must be more than 2 doctors on duty. There will be a&e, on take, itu and theatre doctors on duty in addition to the medical and surgical cover.

What age is he and what’s his life outlook from here? Does he have a serious chance of living a semblance of a decent life from here?

Does he have a chance of getting and staying sober? Does he want to get clean and try to live a reasonable quality of life without alcohol? What’s in his life worth fighting for?

I really feel for you! Once late db was hospitalised after a bad fall and immediately started on detox treatment. He was hallucinating and told doctors he had no family. It took dm 3 days to track him down.

My gods, the NHS. Local Pharmacies can get you nutritional shakes that may help that you could take in. But honestly words fail me at what the NHS has become. I really feel for you OP. I see it from the privilege of having Swiss healthcare.

one tip I learnt when you do get to speak to someone, say you want it written in the notes that you asked for x,y or z and it was refused. I’d also make a sign for his bedside table that says „this patient needs assistance with feeding and drinking, put the hospital logo on it and place it there.

document everything. Hugs

We don't know if the nurse did or didnt escalate this, you can bleep, record MEWS , ring consultants secretaries till you're blue in the face sometimes. If he's deteriorating qnd unrousable then he needs an urgent review.

Next of kin doesn't really give you any authority over his care of you don't have POA. It sounds like no one has questioned his capacity. I think over a weekend on most wards the medical team will be busy fire fighting and family updates for someone not in immediate danger and with capacity will be a very low priority. He's in the best place and they have to prioritise caring for the patients over discussions with relatives.