To think that not always, but quite often, it is the parents...

What is wrong with your son that he can’t manage a train journey? 😵‍💫

There's definitely a large proportion of kids who are a direct reflection of their parents.

Recently took some GCSE kids on a trip and a handful were unbearable rude all day, repeatedly asking the same question, rolling around on the ground, generally being impolite.

Emails to parents explaining their sanctions and 75% replied. One of those said they were horrified by their kids behaviour and would speak to them, the rest accused me of various lies/said their children didn't understand why they had received said sanction - the tone of these emails was very rude and accusatory and as though we were attacking their poor darlings 🙄

If the parents cannot conduct themselves with good manners and grace, it's no wonder their children's behaviour is in the gutter!

My DH is autistic (would have been Asperger’s in the 80s/90s). He’s a perfectly functioning member of society without shouting, throwing or other unacceptable behaviours. I think (and we have a diagnosed HFA child) that society does too much talking and too little consequences for bad behaviour. We can’t just say “it’s ok jimmy, you can scream in the supermarket all you want” it has to be “bad behaviour, we leave, we will try again tomorrow”. Demonstrate good behaviours, reward them when you see them, and call out and give consequences for the bad.There are profoundly autistic children which is entirely different here, but for those with mild SENS or HFA, a lot of parents enable imo.

Yeah, the clue’s right there - nueurodiversity.

Everyone’s different.

I also think in many cases it's the quality of teachers too.
Sad but true

Yup. I say that as a parent to an SEN child, but the quality of parenting is piss poor these days. Respect isn’t being taught, and too many don’t seem to want to in-still any kind of courtesy to other people, stupid things like not using headphones, I swear people are so much more entitled and rude now.

DS is a nightmare at the moment for doing stuff he's not supposed to, I'm always telling him not to do stuff, taking things off him and sometimes physically moving him away. It's exhausting and I feel like I'm going on at him constantly. I suppose that's parenting though. He's a toddler and it's normal. He doesn't have many tantrums yet...

The parent I know who complains the loudest about schools and teachers just utterly failed in every way to prepare their child for an environment in which there are rules and expectations. Laughed and encouraged them in every anti social behaviour they exhibited (swearing like a sailor and spreading their bare bum cheeks on a regular basis). Filmed and put them on social media with adults cackling and cheering them on. What did they think would happen when that child entered a classroom situation? Not to mention homelife was chaotic and mum’s love life was prioritised over the child’s stability. I could have empathy if the mum came from a difficult background but she’s intelligent and university educated herself. I think dad tries his best but he only has her 50% of the time.

So now the child refuses to attend school and it’s all the fault of ‘the system’ apparently.

Some children just are not cut out for the routines of school. That's not anyone's fault. That said, in my experience, 99.9% of the time, when I've met the parents of kids in my class...I see exactly why the kids are the way they are, poor things.

I had one of each... the lovely, sweet & quiet goody two shoes and the disruptive rebel with a foul mouth. If you met them with me in a public place you would think both were lovely and sweet children. Sometimes it simply isn't down to parenting, but personality, friendship groups and the environment they are placed in.

I think there is a lot of truth to schools and "the system" not being appropriate for some of the ND kids who are sent into mainstream education nowadays. But also that parenting and a changing society mean that a lot of kids are not given the boundaries, attention and structure they need to behave well at school, be pleasant to be around, or to thrive.

None of my children are ND so I count myself lucky that I haven’t had to experience the stress of having children who find school and its expected behaviours challenging.

I have a good friend who has two children, one of whom is very well behaved (eldest) and his brother is the ‘naughty’ one. Same environment, same parenting, just different children. He (the youngest) is on the pathway for an ADHD assessment.

Same with a lot of things - I think its easy to judge if you haven’t experienced these things yourself.

Also, I think there is a lot of classism involved. I think teachers (probably subconsciously) blame parents for badly behaved children if they are working class. Those parents are more likely to be labelled lazy or referred to as ‘scum’ (as per PP).

I’ve found that a middle class accent and a flowery scarf works wonders for how some teachers perceive you as a parent.

In my experience the 'talking it through' approach with the children who have additional needs, in our school, has led to an atmosphere where terrible behaviour is ignored and the children are persuaded/bribed into participating.

These children are pushing to find a limit but rarely do because 'gentle'. The other children are meanwhile being disciplined in a totally different way and being held to a higher standard.

So the children with additional needs have few limits and are aware that very little is expected of them. To know that your teachers don't think you are capable of achieving what your peers can (and of course some adjustments might be needed) must be so damaging to the self esteem of these children.

And the children who either don't have additional needs, or who are just about coping, are aware of and hugely resent the double standard. As well as having to suffer the disruption these children bring to their education.

Exceptions won't be made to this extent in their adult lives, so the children (who often need limits) being in charge of what they do is not going to benefit them in adult life, or even high school.

Year 6 SATs started in 1994.

We had two breaks and lunch. And didn't do SATs until yr 9. We certainly weren't hothoused an entire year for them either,

Where was the dad up until that point?

@NotTheOrdinary I don't see how it's ablist to discuss how to better support ND children.

I've been a teacher for a very long time and have my own ND children, and honestly there are many more children struggling these days, partly because parenting styles have changed dramatically. As have schools. Lots of ND children benefit from boundaries, routines etc and they aren't getting them. At home or at school. Too many people resort to iPads as they are a quick, easy way to help a child regulate. And this is understandable, but in the long run it causes problems.

At the school where I work, the senior leaders have a very basic knowledge of therapeutic teaching and have run with it! They have interpreted it as no child should be punished for anything ever. Literally. No '5 minutes off your break', no removal of privileges, nothing but talking it through. Behaviour is dire and this makes for a very chaotic environment, which means that children are struggling, particularly those with ND. Who, ironically are the people this system is hoping to help. They're well meaning but way off the mark.

Obviously I've digressed a lot. What I'm trying to say is the education system has lost its way a bit with neuro diversity.

I think both parents and teaching staff need a better understanding of ND. And of course there's no one size fits all.

This thread is all about ableism. One of many.

Fuck off with it, quite frankly.

I don’t think that’s true. We are in Scotland where it’s meant to be play based learning. My kids don’t even have desks and yet the behaviour is increasingly getting worse.
I actually think many of the kids would benefit from a lot more structure and routine!

Perfect parents of MN assemble.

Can relate.

Dnephew is apparently autistic and it's an excuse for everything. Can't stop punching people.... Cos he's autistic. Glued to a screen... Cos he's autistic. Can't do any type of school work that requires an ounce of effort... Autistic.

It's literally just an excuse for bad parenting.

These are parents whose child attacked another child several times at a scout group, got kicked out (rightly so) but the parent argued the toss and got him back into Scouts.

What does this demonstrate to the child?
.

Well yes. That was my point, I was agreeing with you.