45% of working age people not saving toward a pension at all

I think I have little sympathy for those that are on low wages because they perhaps didn’t apply themselves at school because I went to a truly dire school where at least half of my fellow classmates spent the whole time arsing around, continually disrupting lessons and beating up anyone that did want to work for being geeks. If these particular little scrotes grew up to find life tough then that’s karma. I had to work hard to get good grades as we didn’t learn much in class due to the messing around which left no option but to get the textbook and teach myself.

But hey I’m probably just lucky and my former classmates are probably just unlucky.

There are of course many life circumstances which make it tough for people after leaving school, and I have empathy for those who have suffered genuine misfortune.

Can’t understand why this is surprising at all . Have you seen how much people are paying for student loans together with the of living many can’t do it . I earn considerably well but pay £400 a month if student loan so a lot less for pension

Not really, I'm self employed, I do quite well, part of the reason I'm self employed is because I don't want to be employed - if I retire, and that's a big if, I will downsize and take some money that way.

No way am I rolling up my hard earned in some scheme, not a chance.

But get moaned at if they dont so cant win.

She'll, more likely than not, never opt back in. In this day and age, once you gets your hands on a bit of extra money you never manage to do without it again.

Why do they get to retire? They have to keep working. It’s that simple.
In whatever capacity they can manage, topped up by universal credits if necessary but they need to be subjected to the same conditions as single mums are back to work after 12 months of giving birth

Yeah so who's going to look after the grandchildren while the parents work?
Tbh I'd rather still be holding down a paying job than running after toddlers for the second time around. You know, a lot of women retire so they can help out their family this way?

Another thing with proposing means testing the state pension, as someone else commented you can generally choose how to draw your DC fund so what’s to stop someone flexing their DC in such a way as to maximise the state pension. How could you regularise that?

btw the point they ask you to repay the winter fuel allowance is £35,000 so I expect if a cap comes in it might be around this kind of level. Eg reduce by £1 for every £2 above £35,000.

That’s great if you have a decent income and you can have a good life now too as well as putting money away. My mum died at 73, only 6 years over what the pension age will be for me. For ten years before that she had health issues she wouldn’t have been able to work with - copd, macular degeneration.

Unless you have a good enough income to put a decent amount away and able to retire early the rising pension age means fewer people are going to see the benefit of money into pensions. I’ve only got the NEST type, I can’t afford to put more away despite working full time.

As ever it is people in key worker type roles - ie those who spend a lifetime caring for others - who will miss out on decent retirement incomes due to low wages now.

That's not nuance, that's binary thinking.

That way of thinking is sometimes very MN-style. Poverty and wealth get treated entirely the only two position when inface it is a spectrum responsibility and individual agency are often downplayed. Of course luck, upbringing, health and opportunity matter. Some people absolutely do start life from a much harder position than others. But there also has to be an expectation that people try to make the best of what they have and take some responsibility for their choices and or social responsibility where they can.

What frustrates me, and I am sure many others, is that when someone shares their own experience of working through hardship, instability or adversity, it often gets dismissed as simply “luck”, as though hard work, determination, discipline and sacrifice played little role at all. The reality is usually somewhere in the middle. Neither “I made it why can't others?” nor “people have almost no control over their outcomes ”fully reflects real life.

This is nuance.

This thread got me thinking. I’m so grateful to the lady who went through my graduate scheme paperwork who, when one girl asked about opting out, told us it’d be the worst mistake you ever made. I stayed in and it’s been the easiest money I’ve ever earnt with 25 years of compounding.

I now try to pass on the wisdom and whenever we have new staff and I auto enrol them I always say stick in if you can at all, at 19 you don’t think it’ll matter and you’d rather have the money now but your 50 year old self will thank you!

And because you were bringing up children, your state pension payments were credited to you - the whole time you claimed FA , your stamp was paid - by the taxpayer

Ive never had children, Ive had long instances of ill health where only PT work or Zero hour contracts have been available to me. DH is self employed. If we dont pay our way, there is no tax payers funding our pensions. My husband has to pay all his stamps - and then when out of work as he was a lot during the banking crisis - got not a single penny other then his pension credits - still had to sign on and fill out the job searching and do the job searching that those who were getting their JSA PLUS STAMP paid

TBH, unless you have a family willing to fund you in older life, you need to plan and not expect the tax payer to fund you

Lots of people can't afford to pay into a pension. It's unrealistic to think that people will prioritise the future over the present if saving/ not saving is the difference between being financially ok and struggling. That's lots of peoples economic reality. They aren't feckless. They are poor.

This
A colleague has just opted out so she can repay debt
She plans it to be a temporary move

for many it isn't about being 'sensible' - if the choice is feeding your family or saving for a pension what would you prioritise!

the state pension is not high and all of us get the same amount if we have worked sufficient years for NI credits, irrespective of our sensibility.

I hate it when people are so meanspirited and just want to be doing better than others.

It's not always the case of not bothering to save. Some people can't afford to save

This. I had zero money to save while my children grew up.

To me, this is even more reason to save into a private pension. No way am I am going to work until 67. A private pension usually gives you more flexibility to decide when you want to retire.

I think a lot depends on how much the company puts in, a lot seem to put in the minimum.

No, but Im not quite there yet

I can still feed, heat and clothe us, even have some time away and pay for days/nights out without getting into debt ( not easy but doable )

But why would I not take free money now?

I remember back when I worked for the NHS - my first pension provider, and an old doll retiring at 60 - as we did back then - and back in work full time a months later, because she had chosen to opt out of the pension scheme and pay married woman's NI contributions.

I dont want to be her. So whilst Im getting free money, Ill take it

Im only in the basic WPP now, but I pay the max I can . Its a couple of quid, when you earn so little a couple of quid today that can be a tenner later , its worth it

If pensions become means-tested, I hope private pots don’t cancel out entitlement to state pension. But that would surely mean the end of the pension industry, who wants to be the mug paying in when you get the same out regardless.

I find this all very sad. I worry about my pension a lot and have really prioritised putting money in over the past six years but now realising how lucky I am to be able to do so. I would love to live in a bigger place as I’ve now had a child and our place is tiny but the worry about the future and wanting pension to compound means I’m prioritising that for now. It’s so unfair how wages have stagnated. I agree many are just not able to save into pensions. On paper I have an amazing salary but I live in London and have a little one at nursery, it just gets eaten up. My bills are £2600 before food or travel, and that’s in a small 1.5 bedroom house. And I’ve still got a massive mortgage to pay at 41 because I only got on the housing ladder at 36. It all just feels very heavy and unfair given how hard I’ve worked all my adult life.

Well, I struggle to empathise with high earners who have no empathy for the millions living in foodbank levels of poverty. The country is fucked and you are angry at the victims of a system that’s rigged against them instead of looking at the grift that’s all around us.

Same!! No way can I save 10% and I’m on a good salary!!

Pension goal posts keep changing too. When I started working I expected to retire at 60. It is now 67 for my age group. It doesn’t make you want to invest more in pensions when you might not see much of that money back while you can still have a good quality of life. I earn very little - do I pay my bills and enjoy some treats and holidays or do I put every spare penny into a future I may not even see let alone enjoy?

The cost of living paired with the cost of childcare while being a single parent who earns just enough to not recieve any financial help but barely can cover the basics isnt about money management when there is no money left after paying the bare minimum essentials. There is no money to spare to make work for me. Honestly this shit gets on my nerves.

UC takes pension contributions into account, so you would get more in UC if you pay into a pension. And I'm assuming being on the breadline would entitle you to at least some UC.