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frozendaisy · 20/05/2026 12:20

worriedaboutmyboytoday · 20/05/2026 11:59

Sure. And they're not the people that have had the luck of continuous, well paid, decent pension provision employment that I was referring to.

What I am saying is some people work damn hard to make themselves attractive employees. Whilst some wilt at the slightest bump.

It's not all luck, there is some element of luck for some people, but for the vast majority being a decent worker is what gets them the work.

When you are state funded, be that during your younger years or at retirement, you get what the state can provide not what you think you should have.

And the state provides a basic pension for all. Anything above that is up to you or your family etc.

Friendlygingercat · 20/05/2026 12:19

There is already a deeply unfair situation where those who get pension credit (because they never saved) are better off than those who paid into a modest ccupational pension. This is because pension credit is a passport to other benefits that those thrifty individuals who have saved are denied. Thanks to Rachel from Accounts people in this group were very badly served by suspension of the WFA.

Papyrophile · 20/05/2026 12:19

Having been self-employed since my 30s, and now retired, the time I've spent learning about pensions and managing our investment (mine's a SIPP) has been the best-paying work I ever did!

Greenwitchart · 20/05/2026 12:19

frozendaisy · 20/05/2026 11:13

It is populist nonsense but it's gaining traction.

Poverty and hardship is affecting workers as well as non-workers.

As you say jobs are reducing but you can't hand out increasingly generous welfare payments if the money isn't there.

And everyone wants the nice, well paid, good employer, flexible jobs. Everyone does, and it's an employer's market right now. Of course they are going to employ someone with a strong track record and decent references.

The jobs which are easier to get no one wants to do.

We have exam aged teens, we are fully aware of the preciarious job market they could be entering, we don't know what to advise them for the best, we are aware that they are unlikely to even have pension contributions on their radar for years to come. We are basically saying "get out of the UK" which they are fully on board with.

Edited

UK welfare payments and pensions are not 'generous'. They are some of the lowest in Europe.

Also many people who claim benefits work but have no choice but to top up their wages with benefits because salaries have not kept up. Yet we never talk about fact cat employers choosing to pay pittance wages so they can maximise profit.

I am also not clear what the populist party expect to do with people who can't work or can't find work? let them die in the gutter?

This is not the type of society I want to live in.

It also find it shocking how so many people in England seem to think that their life would be better if there were no benefits yet never question dodgy politicians, CEOs and wealth hoarders in general who have built such an unequal society.

It is like the right wing media and politicians have succeeded in brainwashing the gullible...

Samysungy · 20/05/2026 12:16

crossedlines · 20/05/2026 11:39

That’s true of some situations, but just look at how many posts on MN are from women not wanting to work once they become a parent, or only wanting to work part time forever more! Often citing ‘oh most of my wages would go on childcare’ or ‘I’ll still end up doing all the housework and carrying the mental load if I go to work’ as reasons for not being in paid employment. There are choices here, obviously within the parameters which we all have to operate in, but there is still a level of personal agency. Some people seem to believe they have no personal ability to make decisions and follow a particular path!

Many do not want to as they know they will have to work and then come home and do it all while he takes a 5 hour shit or lounges on the sofa doom scrolling. They also know that their wages would go on childcare knowing he will not share the cost. Yes they can choose to do it all or not do it all. Which is why they often have to choose to stop work as the other option is do it all while he does nothing. That is not a choice. Dads could also choose to drop time at work but as they are not paying childcare in most instances or doing all the chores and parenting after work it isn't something they want to do or see a need to do.

However women are working when they are stay at home mums. Both are working just one is in paid employment and one is unpaid. Both are work. Just she works about 18 hours a day to his 8. Men have a choice to parent and do chores....some ppl believe men have no personal ability to make these decisions.

DeftGoldHedgehog · 20/05/2026 12:10

BiteSizedLife · 20/05/2026 12:03

Not only that but the government has TOTAL control over it. They can charge you whatever they like for you to access it, lock it away from you until they decide you can access it, enact any laws they like that dictate how you spend it, when you spend it... hell, they can even dip into it and decide they can take some/all if they want.

Trust is a big issue tbh.

I do predict a pension raid, sadly.

This.

Disturbia81 · 20/05/2026 12:09

BiteSizedLife · 20/05/2026 11:58

I'm amazed by the amount of people who are experts on complete strangers' finances on this thread.

Never in my life, (I mean real life, not behind-a-keyboard-life) has someone said to me "I can't afford the necessary amount into a pension" and I have responded "you're a liar, you can afford it... you just don't want to."

The internet is a weird place ins't it....

Mumsnet is a misrepresentative of the UK as a whole, meanwhile in the real world most people struggle. No way could I afford to pay into a pension.

BorgQueen · 20/05/2026 12:04

I’ve seen it mooted on X that giving every newborn £20k that has to be invested in a pension would be cheaper than the current system.
I don’t disagree with the idea, although it would need to be at least £35k and would need to rise every year with inflation so not as cheap as the person insisted, in fact he blocked me when I mentioned his mythical £1million in 68 years time would only last 10 years due to inflation at current SP rates.
No Government is going to implement a system that won’t take effect for 68 years, they just wont.

BiteSizedLife · 20/05/2026 12:03

DeftGoldHedgehog · 20/05/2026 12:00

And a lot of this problem was created by the end of final salary and defined benefit schemes for most people, people would pay into schemes more if they knew they would definitely get a good pension at the end, as boomers and silent generation did. Pensions in themselves now are something of a gamble, I mean you wouldn't lose all your money but it's hard to know how much you are going to end up with, the estimates can vary pretty wildly!

Not only that but the government has TOTAL control over it. They can charge you whatever they like for you to access it, lock it away from you until they decide you can access it, enact any laws they like that dictate how you spend it, when you spend it... hell, they can even dip into it and decide they can take some/all if they want.

Trust is a big issue tbh.

I do predict a pension raid, sadly.

DeftGoldHedgehog · 20/05/2026 12:00

And a lot of this problem was created by the end of final salary and defined benefit schemes for most people, people would pay into schemes more if they knew they would definitely get a good pension at the end, as boomers and silent generation did. Pensions in themselves now are something of a gamble, I mean you wouldn't lose all your money but it's hard to know how much you are going to end up with, the estimates can vary pretty wildly!

worriedaboutmyboytoday · 20/05/2026 11:59

frozendaisy · 20/05/2026 11:54

There are some people who don't care what they do if they need to feed their family, they lose a job they sign up with agencies, take zero hour shifts, anything to keep the lights on.

And there are some who say they can't get a job because they can't get on a busy bus.

It's not always luck.

Sure. And they're not the people that have had the luck of continuous, well paid, decent pension provision employment that I was referring to.

BiteSizedLife · 20/05/2026 11:58

I'm amazed by the amount of people who are experts on complete strangers' finances on this thread.

Never in my life, (I mean real life, not behind-a-keyboard-life) has someone said to me "I can't afford the necessary amount into a pension" and I have responded "you're a liar, you can afford it... you just don't want to."

The internet is a weird place ins't it....

DeftGoldHedgehog · 20/05/2026 11:55

I'm not surprised. It's an issue which has been on the horizon for a long time now and exacerbated by huge cost of living increases in the last 5-10 years.

People can't afford to live day to day, let alone to provide for the future. And a lot of people won't make it to retirement or will suffer ill health for many years or are already and can't work.

frozendaisy · 20/05/2026 11:54

worriedaboutmyboytoday · 20/05/2026 11:44

Quite. There are threads nearly every day about the cost of living. Rents are huge in parts of the country where there are jobs, interest rates are rising, unemployment is increasing.

People who start work when they leave education and work continuously in a decent job with good pension provisions and don't encounter redundancy/I'll health/dependents' needs or so on, and were born at a time when property prices bore some relation to salaries and/or had financial help from their family are lucky.

Not better, cleverer, shrewder or anything else. Just lucky.

People who have been dealt harder cards are no less in need of a home and decent quality of life in retirement. Not dying of malnutrition, hyperthermia or a treatable medical condition should be an expectation in a wealthy country, not a preserve of the lucky.

There are some people who don't care what they do if they need to feed their family, they lose a job they sign up with agencies, take zero hour shifts, anything to keep the lights on.

And there are some who say they can't get a job because they can't get on a busy bus.

It's not always luck.

Katypp · 20/05/2026 11:52

I do find it quite entertaing that pemsioners are criticised on MN just about every day for not paying into a private pension or workplace pension (when neither really existed) yet when the same is suggested to today's workers they bleat about not being able to afford it.
Yet on many threads posters are keen to see state pensions means tested or even abolished altogether (to teach the greedy boomers a lesson that they should have planned better)
I wonder how today's workers will manage when THEY are the pensioners who have not planned?

JustWombling · 20/05/2026 11:51

MidnightPatrol · 19/05/2026 17:27

You've Missed the point.

Theyre saying that means testing the state pension penalises those who have bothered to save.

Those who have bothered to save have the luxury of being able to retire early, spend all their saved cash, and then get state pension, all the poor people who who had nothing all their lives, will have to manage on just state pension and an ever increasing retirement age
I have invested a little and am very happy that I will be able to retire early and spend it, no one will take my state pension away as I won't have much left of my savings

batt3nb3rg · 20/05/2026 11:49

SomedayIllBeSaturdayNight · 19/05/2026 17:25

What do you mean? What do you think should happen to those in poverty when they retire?

This argument falls apart when we are facing huge numbers of people, who, mainly through fault of their own, will be retiring with no pension. I know a not insignificant amount of people (my own father foolishly being one of them) who have removed themselves from their workplace pension so they will have extra in their pockets each month. Do I want these people to struggle financially in old age? Of course not. Do I think it's fair or reasonable that a net contributor earning, say £60,000 a year, is paying into their workplace pension, paying a hundreds a month in national insurance, paying a 40% tax rate, losing child benefit on a sliding scale, all to subsidise those who decided not to save for their own retirement? Absolutely not.

I personally believe we need to transition to a pension model where a percent of national insurance is invested into an actual pension for the sole use of the person who contributed to it, with additional relief schemes for those who have been lower earners and so haven't built up a large pot. But these relief schemes need to be very strictly means tested - you shouldn't be able to be living in a three-bed semi as a single old lady claiming pension top-ups. Social care is already the biggest drain on public resources. How many benefits can elderly people reasonably expect to extract from working-age adults?

worriedaboutmyboytoday · 20/05/2026 11:44

Quite. There are threads nearly every day about the cost of living. Rents are huge in parts of the country where there are jobs, interest rates are rising, unemployment is increasing.

People who start work when they leave education and work continuously in a decent job with good pension provisions and don't encounter redundancy/I'll health/dependents' needs or so on, and were born at a time when property prices bore some relation to salaries and/or had financial help from their family are lucky.

Not better, cleverer, shrewder or anything else. Just lucky.

People who have been dealt harder cards are no less in need of a home and decent quality of life in retirement. Not dying of malnutrition, hyperthermia or a treatable medical condition should be an expectation in a wealthy country, not a preserve of the lucky.

JHound · 20/05/2026 11:42

I actually don’t think the state pension should be means tested as I don’t think we should move to solely rewarding those who choose not to make provision for themselves.

There should be a basic amount like now and then strong push to encourage people to pay into a private pension too if they want any kind of decent old age.

Or just do like Australia and make it not an option.

BoredZelda · 20/05/2026 11:39

frozendaisy · 20/05/2026 09:53

This is why it won’t be means tested - because there would be uproar that those who are responsible end up with less after probably putting in more.

There is a stronger argument to increase income tax then the feckless will have money taken from them before they can spend it on tattoos.

No Government can remove the triple lock - means testing is way beyond that.

But from Gen-X onwards, we have seen government after government go after things that would previously have seen as unthinkable. Targeting low income workers, disabled people, carers, children etc. Once upon a time, it was thought unthinkable to remove child benefit, look where we are now. It was unthinkable to raise the pension age but they did it.

There will come a time where a government will have absolutely no choice but to look again at pensions, whether it is removing the triple lock, or means testing or any other measure. There will be nowhere else to go with reducing other benefits. The political fall-out will be relatively short lived because we will have moved to a system where private pensions are unavoidable.

Stillfatstillmiserable · 20/05/2026 11:39

Lougle · 19/05/2026 17:29

According to the National Office for Statistics, the percentage of working age people who are out of work is hovering at 4.9-5% this year. The percentage of working age people who were out of work in 2016 was 4.9-5.1%. So there's not a big change at all.

But what kind of work are they in?
My young adult child has a job so in theory he’s not unemployed… but it’s zero hours contract, despite telling them repeatedly that he wants to work full time, he’s given on average 10 hours a week!
He is looking for another job but so many are zero hours.
It’s a lot cheaper for these employers to employ 4 people on 10 hours per week than 1 on a 40 hpw contract. No need for employer contributions to pensions etc.
But hey the government figures look great…

crossedlines · 20/05/2026 11:39

Samysungy · 20/05/2026 11:27

Sadly many do not find out until the child is born. Dads like that do not announce they will make her do it all they pretend they will be 'hands on' and all that BS until they have to do it and then they go back on their word.

That’s true of some situations, but just look at how many posts on MN are from women not wanting to work once they become a parent, or only wanting to work part time forever more! Often citing ‘oh most of my wages would go on childcare’ or ‘I’ll still end up doing all the housework and carrying the mental load if I go to work’ as reasons for not being in paid employment. There are choices here, obviously within the parameters which we all have to operate in, but there is still a level of personal agency. Some people seem to believe they have no personal ability to make decisions and follow a particular path!

Dahliasgalore · 20/05/2026 11:32

I have worked hard since I was 17, including working FT while I was a lone parent. I was so skint that I could barely pay into a workplace pension (and occasionally a private pension that I have). I’m likely to have a pension pot of £60k if I’m lucky, through no fault of my own. My mum was an unpaid carer for my disabled sister - working harder than anyone I’ve ever met. Obviously reliant on state pension. What do you think people are supposed to do? Let their children go without food or clothes? We are one of the richest countries in the world - it’s how that wealth is distributed that’s the problem. Stop bashing the people at the bottom.

Samysungy · 20/05/2026 11:27

HoskinsChoice · 20/05/2026 00:18

It's embarrassing isn't it?! When will women learn that stopping work and allowing themselves to become the default parent is a really, stupid thing to do. Men don't do don't do it, so why do women? I'll never understand this.

Sadly many do not find out until the child is born. Dads like that do not announce they will make her do it all they pretend they will be 'hands on' and all that BS until they have to do it and then they go back on their word.

JHound · 20/05/2026 11:26

OneShyQuail · 20/05/2026 07:56

Your post is very black and white. Life isn't like that.
The years are short with children, and its a balancing act between things they need and what brings you (and them joy).
Someome saving to take the family away for one week a year (for us 2.5k a year) isnt really going to do much for a pension pot for me, my DP or my kids is it?!

Saving £300 each child per christmas again 18 x 300 is £5400, not really going to do a lot for a pension is it?

And not doing those things robs joy out of life.

Having one family weekly holiday a year and spending some money on your children for Christmas isnt luxurious or extravagant or indulgent. Its pretty standard life. Imagine "sorry kids, no xmas presents...but im paying into your pension"
"Sorry kids no help with driving and a car but ive got you a pension pot"

People with not very much are struggling to pay for the BASICS, homes, clothes food. Those just about managing this may save a little bit for a holiday and some birthday presents.

It isnt because they DONT want to. It is because they cant.

  1. Actually those amounts would do a lot for your pension once the power of compounding is taken into consideration.

  2. This proves a lot of people can afford to pay into their pension. They simply don’t wish to to spend on other things which is what your are doing. They choose not to which is why it needs to be mandatory.