To think some older women having tax payers funded ivf are hypocrites?

I don’t think IVF should be on the NHS at all personally. I get the desire to have a biological child (I have one, not through IVF) However, there’s lots of children waiting to be adopted. Given the NHS is on its knees, why are we paying for this?

I don’t think it’s that useful to pit groups of people against each other, but since you insist on doing so…

Even factoring in those who don’t pay back their loans, graduates as a group are a net contributor to the economy, via all forms of taxation and generally less reliance on welfare, health, social services and criminal justice. This is not the case for teenage parents or their offspring.

The OP just seems to be arguing for the sake of arguing.

I would guess this group of older mums who have "mickey mouse degrees" who don't pay back their student loans and had IVF while berating teenage mums are a vanishing small number of people.

I think the only hypocrisy is complaining you're being victimised while at the same time complaining and berating a whole demographic of women at the same time.

There are graduates struggling for work, yes. There's also a lot of people who didn't go to uni who don't work. A lot of young mum's also don't work. THESE people saying you are a drain on society for being in benefits, while sitting having their whole lives funded too, that's hypocrisy.

On the flip side, there's plenty of all cohorts who do work. None of these people are hypocritical for using some state funded options available to them. Women who have worked their whole lives and then use the NHS for one treatment are not hypocrites for having views on people who don't work.

It's when you say things like "Mickey Mouse degrees" that makes you sound bitter by the way. I don't work in a field related to my degree topic (Science, by the way, before you accuse me of studying something "useless"), but I utilise the skills I learned there everyday. So the subject doesn't really matter, regardless of your views on it. Interestingly, 80% of my cohort at uni worked while they were there and there isn't a single one out of work currently, with the exception of one who made the decision to be a stay at home mum and her husband earns too much for her to claim benefits.

Much like it doesn't matter what someone's views on the first few years of your adult life are when it comes to them using a system they're entitled to.

Very few regions fund more than one cycle. I think this is dangerous territory OP, you could compare this to the significant NHS funds being spent on obesity, obesity related conditions and weight loss jabs

If you didn't ever get a job, you'd have continued being paid benefits to fund your life. You'd never be expected to pay those back.

What's your point?

The “biological reality” is that most women can have children from menarch or shortly after until they are around the 40 mark. There are some people who will deviate from this general pattern some may be infertile at 35 or earlier and some still fertile at 45 or even later but this is the biological reality

And yet, ours has aged us horribly 🤣

Not sure how never being allowed to sleep again "keeps you young" 🤔 but apparently parenting does!

Yes and if you don’t have children you’ll never know what real love is and you’ll get old before your time as they keep you young apparently.

That is interesting . My mam had me at almost 39 . She has no regrets there at all. I think late 20s is a lovely time to have a child personally. I wasn’t in a position to have one then. Ideally I would have preferred to have both of mine by my mid 30s but it didn’t work out. I think it’s hilarious all the people on this thread basically saying “what I did is the best” and criticising people who had kids at different ages. Who actually cares ? Here in Ireland a lot of women always had kids later in life cos contraception was not recommended back in the day . Like in my mother’s generation a lot of people had their first at 18 and then their last at late 30s and would have like 10 kids ! No one batted an eyelid or was debating what the “best age” was back then. What happened just happened

This.

No matter what we do, women are never doing it right.

We can have it all so we should. But if we have it all, because of the career we're neglecting our children. Letting them be raised by someone else (childcare).

If we don't "have it all", we're either not working, therefore someone else (whether that be a partner or the tax payer) is subsidising our life. Or we have a career but no children and we're not fulfilling our purpose.

Work full time and you're neglecting family. Don't work and you're lazy, look at the full time working mum's. Work part time and you're allowing someone to partly subsidise you while also neglecting your children part of the time.

Have children young and you're wasting your life. Wait til you're older and you're being selfish. Do it on your own and you're depriving a child of a father. Wait til you're married and you're "leaving it too long". Or marrying the wrong person and that's your fault for jumping too soon. Do it when you're unmarried and you're silly for the lack of protection.

No woman can ever win.

This has been pointed out repeatedly on here but it’s not being taken on board. I started ttc at 29, not long after getting married. We tried for 18 months, then went to the GP who referred us to gynae outpatients, and it took another couple of years having tests to see if I was ovulating, and other tests, and waiting for a lap & dye to check my tubes, then I took Clomid (fertility drug, cheaper than IVF so first line of attack) for 9 months with no result, then referred to the NHS fertility clinic,where we were told we needed a treatment that was not then routinely available on the NHS.

You do know people who have student loans are paying back those loans right? It's literally taken out of their pay and they accrue interest before they've even got their degree. You paid back all the benefits you got? Oh that's right YOU don't need to because you didn't get a loan you got a subsidised lifestyle. Subsidised by me at 18 and every other tax payer. Hey I get it though as long as it pays for you and yours one rule for thee but not for me.

Also why are you assuming you're special for being judged? You get judged relentlessly if you are a woman end of. The bitterness just oozes out of your every pore. People don't agree with you so get off the internet and touch grass.

At University final year. I think the plan is a rented flat and a job, not in the South East which makes it easier. But my point is it should be easier less noteworthy society needs to align with biology because biology aint shifting.

The person making the claim is the one that should prove the evidence to support their claim. You should be giving the source of your information as support.

That should be a reliable source. Eg HEFA figures on ages of those having treatment.

Ever thought about the fact that those having treatment may have been trying for a baby for years. They may have gone to a gp and been told to try for longer. They may have had several tests, or been on waiting lists for tests before being referred for treatment. There is then a waiting list for treatment. All of those could push up average age.

Because 22 is still very young and I guess they’d prefer him to have a bit more life experience. These things aren’t just about money.

Well if he had been the latter, why would his parents have been so horrified?

It depends what kind of 22 year old you mean. If you mean a brand new graduate, you’re right. If you mean someone who left school at 16, completed an apprenticeship and is now working as a tradesman, it’s perfectly possible for him to provide for a family.

With the best will in the world a 22 year old man is unlikely to be in a position to provide for a family without considerable assistance from the state, no? The 22 year old is likely still living at home.

It's almost like people think the biological impact of pregnancy and birth on the woman's body is the ONLY thing to consider.

Doesn't seem to matter what kind of life the child might have. If we're being entirely realistic, it's easier on the body at 20 than at 35. But, can the average 20 year old provide financial stability the same as the average 35 year old? It's much easier to go back to work in a career you've established yourself in, with the flexibility you need for children, than it is to then build your career and reputation around parenting a small child.

Then think about housing these days. Can the average 20 year old afford to live in a decent school area in house with space for children? At 20 I was still living at home, because of uni, my sister didn't go to uni but didn't move out til her late 20s because she couldn't afford to. Should a child have been brought into relationships while we didn't live with our partners, and it would have disrupted OUR parents lives?

Women who do deliberately wait aren't only thinking of themselves, of enjoying their 20s etc. They're thinking about the life they can provide a child.

Why are they judged for that?

I hate the shaming of any mums, whatever their age. But there seems to be a particular vitriol on here towards older mums. Yes there are risks having a baby older but they are still LOW. The overwhelming majority of older mums will still go onto to have healthy babies. You'd read on here that it was practically a given that a women over 35 will end up with something catastrophically wrong with them or their baby.

Yes it is biologically best to have to have a baby in your 20s but they are other factors that also contribute to having a baby. Meeting the right partner, having a stable income, roof over your head etc. For a lot of people these things aren't possible or don't happen until later on in life. What are women meant to do. Just not have children past the age of 35?

It seems as women we can't win. We're either too young or too old. Not having enough children or having too many children. Then told there's a population decline and when we have children to help with this, told were having them at the wrong age.

Just relating my experience is all, I do not consider myself a victim. Interestingly now in our '50s many of our friends say they wish they had got on with it and not delayed so long. DS's girl friend relating a tale of a aqquaintence of her parents who was horrified and ashamed of her DS becoming a father at age 22.