I'm fed up with everyone tiptoeing around Brexit having been rubbish

A lot. Reducing trade friction with our closest trading partners would be a big help, and it would improve food supplies and supply chains for British businesses (including farmers and fishermen). That on its own would help us. We also need to start arming ourselves against Russia, and closer cooperation with the other European democracies will be helpful for that, too.

All Brexit has done has been to make us smaller and weaker in every way. And now that Trump has made kicking his allies around into a voter winner at home, we can’t even get anything out of sucking up to the US.

People talk about the EU as if it's some sun lit economic utopia. In reality, most of its big members are dealing with stagnant growth, bad public finances, and the same mass asylum and illegal immigration pressures as everyone else, often worse. France, Italy, Germany have debt problems, budget problems, social unrest and weak productivity. Spain has a huge housing crisis and has caused upset by granting citizenship to over 500k undocumented illegal immigrants.

The Dublin Agreement does not work.

This idea that the UK is miles behind is just comforting mythology.

How would the average Briton's life be improved by hooking us back up to the political bloc?

The media has been going on for years about how badly Brexit has been ballsed up by incompetent Conservatives. It is one of the reasons they are not doing very well in elections at the moment. People who feel strongly about it blame our woes on beingin or out of the EU, depending which side they are on. The reality is that all countries are having a tough time at the moment and both options come with pros and cons. Personally, I would benefit from being in the EU but I think the country as a whole needs a really effective British government more than it needs to part of the European Union.

No I’m sorry that’s absolute bollocks.

Voters have a duty to inform themselves of their decisions and to take responsibility for it. It’s a slippery slope from they can’t be trusted on the Brexit vote, so why would they be trusted with any vote at all.

People who voted for Brexit and who now regret it should be looking their own foolishness in the eye, not trying to shift the blame onto David Cameron/Nigel Farage/ anyone else.

The anti-intellectualism behind that comment is staggering.
Brexit is a folly built on Hubris, and every disappointed voter needs to understand why they personally were willingly blind and deaf to the downsides which they were told about.

This is pure cope. The people who wanted it were all over the Tories - don’t you remember the European Research Group? Brexit hard man Steve Baker was put in charge of sorting out the Northern Ireland situation and then - surprise - discovered he couldn’t do it. All that blow hard politicking and pure belief came to nothing with faced with reality.

It feels like tiptoeing to me, too. Bcz no political party would be successful with electorate by campaigning to reverse Brexit. So everyone who thinks Brexit was a disaster and says so, also tiptoes around not saying they would campaign to rejoint.

During the referendum campaign, There were constant warnings about disruption & Britain being poorer and having less influence in the world. Since June 2016, Even people who voted Remain said "Don't ignore the will of the people". We were also constantly told "People knew what they were voting for." People were told Brexit would damage the economy, that's what they voted for, and that's what they think democracy means should continue to happen. <shrug> Enjoy your "sovereignty." <shrug>

The annual estimates of loses to the UK economy from Brexit vary at lot but are between 100 billion to 200 billion.

i mean you are right, Prehaps in the future the UK might rise. But at the moment, it is undeniable that it was an act of self harm.

The issue with Brexit is that the British negotiation team went in unprepared and treated it like a joke. Meanwhile the EU had no interest in making it a success and negotiated as such. A lot of people forget what led to the Brexit referendum. A whole election was won off the back of securing a ‘better’ deal, and then if that wasn’t achieved putting it to a public vote.
Should the UK gov have used the vote results to further negotiate? Probably. But nobody planned for vote leave to win.

I know, it’s shocking isn’t it. I sit here and look at mainland Europe. They have no cost of living crisis; no illegal immigration issue. I don’t understand how other people can’t see that. If only we had the growth that Germany has. Only super intelligent and completely unbiased people like us can see it for what it is.

The EU accounts for 40% of exports.

If you a looking at whether something is a success or not, you need to look at a bigger picture than the success of one business man. There are People of course that made money out of Brexit but overall economists forecasted that it would leave the UK worse off and it has.

I disagree.

If we hadn’t left we would still have all the boats but we would be £9 billion pounds down (net) or £15 billion gross a year.

My friends have bought properties in France post Brexit, DH still has plenty of work in the EU despite him saying it would all go and students are still studying over there.

It’s fine. And if it’s not perfect now, it will change anyway as countries round the world rise and fall.

??? Its been shit since day 1. Not sure why you're just realising.

I voted YABU because I don’t think anyone is tiptoeing around it, all we’ve heard is how shit it is for 10 years. Just listen to TRIP, Campbell and Stewart bring it up constantly.

That is an interesting point of view. I don't agree but I am very open to hearing how it could have been implemented better. What are your thoughts on how it could have succeeded and been administered well?

I've often heard that argument. Classic case of 'cutting off your nose to spite your face'. What kind of a message did she think she was sending? All she's done is make things worse for everyone, including herself.

Well nobody is allowed to say “We’re up shit creek thanks to the idiots who voted for it - the ones who labelled the resulting shitshow as ‘Project Fear’, when it was actually ’Project Bleeding Obvious’ to anyone who had put more than 20 second’s thought into it.

“Ooh, you can’t blame the Leave voters, we were conned. It wasn’t our fault. Blaming us isn’t helpful!”

They were conned by a slimy chancer who might as well have had “CONMAN” written across his forehead. It is their fault, and I’m fed up of having to tiptoe round them.

If you said this to most people in RL @paddleboardingmum , they would wonder if you have been cut off from TV / radio / newspapers / social media / the internet generally / unable to leave your home… for a good few years

Well I see the eu itself as an unmitigated utter disaster.

Brexit is just like communism. A brilliant idea that has failed because it wasn’t implemented correctly.

Or just maybe it was a fucking stupid idea in the first place.

Apart from a few cranks, I don’t think anyone is pretending it’s been anything other than a total disaster. The difference of opinion is about WHY it’s been a total disaster.

On one hand, you have people who believe it was just inherently a disaster and was never going to be anything other than a disaster, because the whole notion is fundamentally flawed. I fall into this camp.

On the other, you have people who believe the problem is not Brexit in and of itself but rather the way it was implemented. In their view, Brexit in the true sense didn’t happen; instead politicians screwed it up. Had Brexit been implemented properly we’d all be living the good life in the sunlit uplands.

I can understand why Andy Burnham has

he needs voters that voted leave and no one really likes to be told they were wrong

if he becomes PM he can then say what a catastrophe it’s been but then that’s a risk for the next election

its not about appealing to those who are already on rejoining side or appealing to more voters necessarily it’s where you need to win voters over (high leave voting areas)

How the fuck do you work that out? Implementation was led by Boris Johnson and his "oven ready deal". Boris was one of the chief architects of Brexit. We came out of the EU with a deal that was negotiated and signed by leading Brexiteers. If it failed, then that failure was entirely of their own making.

The reality is, all the promises of sunlit uplands were based on the false premise that we could keep all of the benefits of being in the EU without any of the costs. The Brexiteers argued that we could have our cake and eat it. Anybody who ever thought that was remotely realistic was conned. Whether they're willing to admit it or not.

The vote was a decade ago. Exit was 6 years ago. I don't waste time thinking about it, life goes on, and we are no worse off than France or German in terms of growth or immigrants.
I don't think people are "tiptoeing around it". It's just not part of the equation any more.

Again? Blimey, it's like a stuck record isn't it? I got fed up with hearing about it years ago, and can't think of anything worse than talking about bloody Brexit.

Maybe the COL crisis wouldn’t have hit us in the UK so hard if we hadn’t had brexit, faffed about leaving and left a weakened EU. Maybe the US wouldn’t have tried to bully us as part of the EU we were stronger and we wouldn’t have lost industry and jobs who relocated to be in EU.