AIBU to think a junior probationer’s month abroad request is unreasonable?

I haven’t rtft so this may have already been mentioned but in the UK there are tax implications for the company if any employee is working remotely overseas in a country where the company does not have an office and is not paying tax in that country (short periods of time are ok but this employees proposal would be over).

Suggest you check what the tax authority rules are for your country as you want to ensure any future policy you put in is compliant and maybe point that out to the employee as part of letting them go.

Unless their need to go home is urgent because a family member has been told they have weeks to live, or something similar, then they need to be sacked! If this is their level of entitlement already then they’ll always be a CF!

"Since you cannot perform your duties while not present , and it is inconsistent with company policy that applies to everyone else, it is unpaid leave and your probation will be extended".

If they are nice worker, let them go, and re-employ them once they come back or put them on a waiting list to be re-employed

I would say this is completely unacceptable and probably unachievable to work your full time hours whilst on “holiday” I think this is taking advantage of a system that promotes flexibility with wfh ….. there not at home there in another country!
and another thing I would be concerned about as a manager is how my team would react to this , if you allow one person you would have to allow everyone the opportunity. It’s unfair as I imagine they wouldn’t be contactable with the difference in time zones . It would be a flat out no to working and if still on probation you could either terminate contract or allow unpaid leave . But either way this is a very cheeky brazen request that I wouldn’t even consider

She hasn't even completed her probationary period and is already taking the piss - four weeks! Let her go.

Honestly, I would let her go altogether. You'll have to train a temp, so you might as well train someone who is serious about having a job. This person isn't taking her work or your business seriously. That's extra important given you are a small business. She had no reservations about landing you in the shit. She thought you'd sigh and say "OK dear, you can work all night in a foreign country with a completely different time zone when there'll be no supervision - even though you're on probation - and you can go out on trips with your family and friends in your spare time. No worries, enjoy yourself!" No bloody way. She hasn't got the right attitude. Having the right skills is one thing, but you can teach someone that. You can't teach them to have a good attitude to your business.

Hmm. I don't think you've decided the right thing OP. I saw that you think your employee messed up, but imagine the resentment it will cause amongst your other employees. Aside from risking CF behaviour from that person in the future.

We had a new starter (Muslim) in my previous job who asked for 2 weeks off over Ramadan. He was told that the maximum number of people were already off because of that, so no. He called in sick, then didn't last long after that.

This kind of privelige is earned after putting in the hard yards and showing they are good and reliable.

And even then, there may be legal/security/tax reasons why it can never be permitted, and which an employee may not be aware of.

Working while on holiday in the same country is one thing. Working while on holiday in a different country is a different matter.

Rule of thumb, don't book holidays until it has been approved. Unless this is a standout employee who will go far I think you will be taking on a liability.

If you are feeling generous say they can take it unpaid leave, explain the holiday approval process point forward and extend the probation. This covers your back, should not wind up your current employees too much (don't want to set a precedence here) and see what happens.

had only read OP (my bad)

Having seen your update, @estrogone , i think you are probably taking best route.

(disclaimer: i started a new job at the beginning of the month, i made it clear from the start that i would not accept the role if my week's pre-booked holiday - also in May - would not be approved. Or i could start on 1st June. Luckily for me, they really want me so accepted my vacation and all is good)

This is a young person, so you need to be very clear that their behaviour is not acceptable, and that they must not lie (or must be upfront) about pre-booked things during any future interview processes. Point out the additional costs of finding a temp replacement and ask them if they think that is acceptable. Ask them also how they had planned to work their hours in their time-zone while being with family. That is not realistic and you need to let them know that it was never ever going to work out like that and they need to focus on their job before anything like this. This kind of privelige is earned after putting in the hard yards and showing they are good and reliable.

The very cheek of it!

I agree this is the right thing to do. It’s an absolutely wild pisstake and if they are going to pisstake this early on, they are going to continue pisstaking.

I would also record that insufficient notice was given for this absence, whether it was to be paid or unpaid or whatever.

what a fucking nightmare employee

and definitely restart probation.

i would tell them to take one month's unpaid leave which will add one month to their probation.

If you are inclined to agree to this:
there is no shortened working agreement, they work exactly the hours in the UK time zone that they are expected to work. As on probation they will be required to check in and check out with you regularly: on starting, on going and returning to lunch and in the evening.

Aditionally you will be checking in with them, video on and no blurred background, randomly.

Or fire them, and rehire when they come back?

That’s a hard no.
They’re on probation and this is how they behave? Seems an easy decision to make really doesn’t it? Doesn’t matter that they’re saying they’ll work when they’re away - they’re expecting people to change procedures and systems around them and they’re on probation??? Nope. No.
Even if they cancel their plans if you request it they’ve shown what they’re like. ‘Not a good fit for the company’.

Them working for you in a different country creates tax implications for the business. It is absolutely not allowed in my company.

I thought it might be possible for me to work from a family members house in the US, has my company already has offices there, but there were concerns about tax implications from it being in a different state.

You need to say no to the working and the lack of sign off before booking I think the employee might need to give their notice in now. Are you really sure they are worth keeping if their judgement is so off?

Best advice in the circumstances

I imagine they were a long term employee and also discussed it with you before booking!

Someone not in probation and who confirms the arrangements BEFORE booking is a different story.

it's quite different with established members of staff. And of course theres a huge difference if asking first rather than presenting the trip as a fait accompli

Offering flexibility to a long standing member of staff with a good track record is hugely different from being railroaded into a situation by someone on the team for less than 6 months. Lots of evidence of not following procedures and trying to force OP into a corner.

It sounds like you haven’t been clear in your expectations from the start but also they haven’t been up front.

At the end of the day how much do you want to keep them as an employee? Have they demonstrated any other red flag behaviour so far or are they otherwise an exemplary employee?

If you really want to keep them then advise they will need to take the leave as unpaid and their probation will resume when they return, I wouldn’t allow them to take company IT abroad for security reasons and they won’t be able to concentrate on work when their travel companions will be out having fun/sleeping.

If you don’t want to keep them advise the leave is denied and they will need to be in the office for most of the time to prove they haven’t taken company IT abroad. They will probably resign rather than lose the money for the trip - and you will have to go through the recruitment process again (unless you have reserve candidates from the previous trawl).

I can't see when the trip is actually booked for That would make a difference

This is how I feel too. I'm quite surprised by this thread.

But then, as a manager I really don't care where they are as long as the job is done.

We have somebody about to go abroad and work, because leave overlapped and she offered this as a solution.

Agree with this. A client facing role is not compatible with overseas remote working in a different time zone, even assuming your systems allow it. Stop trying to facilitate their oversight. Four weeks is over and above the norm of a single period of annual leave and the request usually needs more than a month’s notice regardless of how long an employee has been there. Do you have a leave policy? Their options are to cancel, reschedule or resign, failure to do so is misconduct.

Do you actually want this person working for you long term? I certainly wouldn't. I would hire someone else to do their job, and thank them for their service.

As a pp said she showed this to her 18 year old who told her they were massively taking the piss so it seems first job they’d know what’s acceptable and not.