AIBU to think a junior probationer’s month abroad request is unreasonable?

Sounds like they are from the “it’s better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission” camp.

@estrogone for future reference, as part of our offer we ask people to confirm if they have any holidays booked, as we will honour them (assuming they are under 3 weeks). If someone doesn't state that they have, then they need to apply for leave like everyone else.

It;s probably been already mentioned, but Australian working visas are quite hard to come by. Vanishing after a tiny period of actual work might be in breach of a visa rule also.

She said I was old fashioned and her boss was cool about it and told her to have a good time. Then she got her probation extended and was told one of the reasons was due to her disappearance for a month and not showing commitment to the job. She was genuinely stunned. She has grown up since then and knuckled down.

I work with undergraduates, and some try this sort of thing - asking "Can I do the module remotely as my parents have booked a holiday for that month? (when it's not an online module) or "there's a wedding in Hong Kong I need to go to" etc etc etc

My point of view is that they're adults, and I can't actually stop them from doing what they think they want to or need to.But that, as adults, they have to live with the consequences of their choices.

How have they responded?

Yep too cheeky to assume they can work remotely in a different time zone to the client they are facing for a month.

I think a kind but frank discussion is needed about how any changes in working will be fairly considered but that business needs are also considered. The lack of notice that was given (the 'heads up' is not the same), booking a holiday without prior agreement, the deciding on other ways of working without discussion with manager and the security policy around taking IT devices abroad are all factors that would need much more time and planning. That they have not accrued enough paud holiday, but that you will kindly offer them unpaid leave and a months extension of their probation.

whats the point of training someone else for a months work? just gt rid of the emplyee they;ll take the p even mor if you let them

Ds22 has almost finished his probation period with his first job and would definitely not behave that way. He has already had a £500 bonus for his work. I think his job would actually allow him to take it unpaid (he wouldn't be allowed to work from abroad) as he does have specialised skills but there would probably be something put on his record. I know when he got the job he had to tell them any holidays etc already booked.

I think the ultimate question is do you want this person working for your company longer term? I would not be impressed and I’d be having a serious conversation with them. Their attitude in that conversation would decide whether I terminated their contract, or let them have some unpaid leave to go. I would not be letting them “work” on holiday at all.

Maybe they thought if they get x amount of holidays a year they could just take them straight away. Have to say I have worked for organisations that would allow you to do that. If someone left and they’d taken too much holiday that year their last pay cheque would just be calculated accordingly.

i do think there is something about this generation which thinks it’s acceptable. My Dd is the same age and pulled a very similar stunt in her first job. Slight difference though is that she asked her boss before booking anything (he said yes and she worked while on a different continent for about 3 weeks). I cringed for her and said she should never have asked. She said I was old fashioned and her boss was cool about it and told her to have a good time. Then she got her probation extended and was told one of the reasons was due to her disappearance for a month and not showing commitment to the job. She was genuinely stunned. She has grown up since then and knuckled down.

My work had laughed and asked you to find the door out and goodbuy! Have a nice life in another setting.

I agree. This person thinks the rules don't apply to them and they've sufficiently got their feet under the table to not be replaced.

Now days, companies aren’t willing to invest in good people anymore, as demonstrated by the fact OP would rather sack them and start again.

I think OP's inclination to get rid of them and hire someone else was a desire to invest in good people not poor ones.

They were testing how weak you are when they first mentioned it to you. It should have been put to bed there and then.

I think I’d take this type of approach, OP. Given then unpaid leave, but be really clear it’s a one off
You’ve noted they’ve only been in Australia for 7 months - is your job the first they’ve had outside their home country?
It sounds as if they’re trying to pull a fast one, but they maybe totally naive about Western work places.
As you’ve said it’s a small company, I’m guessing you might not have anyone else from their home country - but if you do, would they be able to explain (weird) Australian work habits ?
Who knows this young person might turn out to be awesome when they understand the work place …

Can you try and get cover for the month and then tell the employee to take it unpaid, extend their probation by the month. They won’t get any work done, you’ll regret allowing them to attempt to work with such a difference in the time zones.

They can’t fulfill the terms of their contract so they need to hand in their notice with immediate effect or face being sacked and having that on their employment record.

offered to work nights to suit the business.

But it doesn't suit the business, quite apart from any legal issues. The person won't be available to the client in their normal working hours, and their probation can't be overseen as it would if they were in the office.

They would have likely started their career during Covid - so had limited actual work experience to see what is done/not.

Lockdowns - in the UK at least - ended in spring 2021. This person has had five whole years since then to learn what is done or not done in a work environment.

It's about bloody time people stopped using Covid as an excuse for everything.

deleted because I thought I was posting on a batshit economy thread - agree in the context of this thread tge straw man and entire scenario is equally daft.

And then what would people without children/not needing childcare say about this special treatment? And would those people be expected to just cover for their colleague and bollocks to any hopes of a summer holiday for themselves?

At 16 I knew I had to do everything according company policy in my Saturday job. Being under 25 is not an excuse to be a pillock at work.

This person needs a reminder who the manager is. They do not call the shots because it suits them. This is definitely a case of they feel comfortable enough to ask forgiveness instead of having had permission beforehand.

It's not a realistic option to work nights for 3-4 weeks whilst being away and seeing family and friends, and being productive and maintaining standards. And that's true for any employee let alone one new to the job. You also have a duty of care to an employee and them working like that without adequate rest isn't good. As well as the issues re IT equipment overseas. I also think there's OP is being very fair, they have thought about it and haven't imediately jumped to sacking them.

They would have likely started their career during Covid - so had limited actual work experience to see what is done/not.
Your brain also isn’t formed until 25

Do it. This is absolutely grounds to fail a probation period. Cut your losses and move on.

They're not that young, they're 25!