AIBU to think a junior probationer’s month abroad request is unreasonable?

And if a client prefers to have an in person meeting?

yes virtual meetings are very deoable and in a lot of cases are more efficient but sometimes in person is better/ preferred. Also dialling in only generally works well if a significant number of attendees are dialling in. If everyone else is in the room together and 1 dials in, it generally doesn’t work well (or at least is a lot harder work to make it work)

Oh for goodness sake stop picking hairs, she never said there would be a panic and she explained how the work would be covered. It's a damned nuisance to a small company to have someone suddenly decide to take time off. Would you have let this employee do what she wanted? When you wrote "help out for a time" do you even realise that you mean "make everyone else pick up more work"? Have you ever managed a company with 15 people covering every role (and made a profit long term?).

I am not saying it wouldn’t be inconvenient, but OPs comments are making this person sound indispensable - which they have later said no one is. Which is it?

If your business would fail if one person- especially a junior employee- isn’t there, you need to reassess your business model. No one should be that vital or you are asking for trouble. What if this employee was off sick for a month?

Op seems to have used this scenario to update their policies but I’d also look at work flow/training to make sure that IF someone was ever off for a long period, others could help out for a time and there wouldn’t be a panic.

Was that a constructive comment?
It was OP who made claims that their business could be at risk , not me.

Which part am I clueless about? I doubt many small businesses would admit to a junior having that much impact on the business. It’s a silly statement

Do you have a problem with alcohol? You seem obsessed with that and partying.

Personally, I can donwithout the stuff so perhaps it's easier for me to function on a daily basis.

Has anyone queried the tax implications of working from another country? I would get legal advice and sack them.

Few companies with 15 people can afford to run with spare capacity. With am unexpected, unplanned absence others have to take up the workload (in this case the OP has said it will be her and a temp). And then you get people stretched and inexperienced, or out of practice, in the role and then, if you are unlucky ...

• For want of a nail the shoe was lost;
• For want of a shoe the horse was lost;
• For want of a horse the rider was lost;
• For want of a rider the battle was lost;
• For want of a battle the kingdom was lost,
• And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

I’ve worked night shift and functioned as a human being. Not a human being doing family lunch and coffee catch ups like I didn’t work, and when I went to a 2pm party it was like starting drinking at 3am and went badly for me. You could do it for normal life but you don’t drink at afternoon things or dinner and then go to work and you need sleep, slightly more sleep as most people sleep less well on shift work even if it doesn’t feel like it - I felt like I slept well but was still more tired.

25 is old enough to know better, I’d say no and assume they’ll hand their notice in. If they were 18 I’d give some leeway on maturity and make them take the month unpaid and make it very clear it was a silly decision to book it without having approval first.

i am all for 2nd chances and I think the recommendation of unpaid leave, extending probation and communication so they don’t do this again is probably reasonable response.

I have had times when 2nd chances work fantastically and people become some of the best employees after but also there was this case where it completely did not.

has this girl joining on very good and competitive day rate (probably too much - but I like to pay people well). After few weeks of joining she said she wanted to go and work from Nigeria (where she was from) as she wants to get married. I said look, you can go for 2 weeks and out of those 2 weeks - 1 week work from there and one as unpaid / holiday (not much time zone difference in my case). Then turned out it was not wedding just pre marriage party and she went for 8 days and ‘worked’ from there for a week). Then further requests started come in (I am pro working from home we had 3 days in office / 2 at home) always to have Thursday wfh as she needs to look after her 4 yo niece. Had to explain that babysitting is not allowed in office hours (I am always ok with emergencies and if it’s your own kid and cannot find help). Then started randomly asking for additional wfh days as her partner is unwell and she needs to look after him (yes grown man). I asked if it’s something very serious - no, just a cold. I said unless she has to take him to hospital she should be in office and if she wants to ‘take’ care of him - then take unpaid day.. oh and then wanted to work from home so can go to church.. (cannot remember all the reasons). Her work was not that great either, not corresponding the elevated rate.. so I let her go . And believe it or not she with a Pikachu face was enquiring why and truly could not understand the reasons…

Clearly utterly clueless about running a small business.

If pointing out that if the absence of a junior employee puts the whole business at risk then maybe it’s not a secure business model is rude and goady, then so be it.

Id say the truth hurts but I doubt this is actually true and more a case of the OP being dramatic .

Why?

No you haven't, you're just being rude and goady.

Why is that @Bellabun ? It's really not that difficult or time consuming to type out a message. Have you got anything constructive to add that might actually help OP?

I was right about the implicit approval! You're now the bad guy and they'll probably try emotional manipulation next to get their own way.

Flights can often be changed for a fee.

Indeed. And there's the added fun of considering the cyber risks wherever this employee is going eg are they working in an Internet café? Some countries prohibited encrypted devices etc. What if the device broke whilst they were abroad? There are also potential tax implications depending on how long this person has spent in that country prior to starting work for OP.

So yes OP didnt have a policy but it doesn't mean that she has to allow this for an employee who has not even passed probation and didn't give much notice. There are lots of considerations and a small business doesn't have the time or energy to address them all. Of course some companies are set up for this, great for them. But not all are. And OP is not being unreasonable at all!

I’m impressed that as the CEO and owner of a new start up with 15 employees you have the time to post on mumsnet!

i presume there is an annual leave request process that’s been explained to them?

This is a ridiculous request. Travelling and working overseas presents risks around security of devices and data. They may not have a secure or work appropriate working area. Working alternate hours just does not suit a business and is not efficient. It’s a completely unreasonable and unprofessional request!