AIBU to think a junior probationer’s month abroad request is unreasonable?

I’d just get rid.

If you’re feeling kindly towards them then tell them they’ll have to take unpaid leave. Their choice.

There are quite a lot of potential issues. Are employees allowed to work overseas? In past jobs I haven’t been as it can create tax issues for the company, as well as cyber security and people issues (setting precedents, blurred lines when someone wants to work when on holiday). If they’re client facing and with such a huge time difference, how will they be contacted, how will they attend meetings.

I am also surprised they booked it without proper approval and during their probation.

They should take it as proper annual leave and then unpaid if they haven’t accrued enough. Or just terminate employment, sounds like they could cause more problems further down the line

But the thing is, in most jobs, it’s exceptional circumstances to grant unpaid leave and it’s at the discretion of the manager/HR. Otherwise lots of people would take unpaid leave. The employee probably knows they’re being a CF but decided to chance their arm.

As with every relationship - once they show you who they are believe them.

Nope.

Trying to combine work and holiday is a recipe for disaster or piss-taking, especially with the time difference. This is very different to, say, going to France for 2 weeks, working mornings and having the afternoons as annual leave. The piece meal nature of their plan means that either they'll be skiving, exhausted (Def no to overnight working), or not available when needed.

Is there a work abroad policy? Is it permitted? We are forbidden from working abroad due to IT security etc.

Absolute piss take to book a holiday without checking annual leave approval first, or getting permission to work abroad.

If they looking promising, I'd be talking about the requirements of my final point, refusing permission to work abroad, making them take at least 2 weeks of it as annual leave and the remainder as unpaid leave. And make it very clear - in writing - that this was a special consideration this time round despite their failure to comply with annual leave policy, and in future it would not be accommodated again and they will need to comply with policies.

Their age doesn't matter
The cost doesn't matter
Their probation doesn't matter
Their role doesn't matter

What actually does matter is this over entitled piss taker decided to book and pay for it, without checking first.

That's completely on them if they lose thousands.

You don't need to be encouraging their 'don't give a shit' behaviour towards the company.

Your mistake was to ask them to demonstrate how they could maintain service levels. Your response should have been a straight ‘no’.

Obviously an immature 25 year old. Quite staggering how entitled they are.

Unpaid leave is the only option if you want to keep them. They will not have accrued enough paid leave, and you know that if you pay them, they will not be able to deliver when they are sunning themselves in Australia and kidding on that they are working all night.

If you're feeling particularly generous (and I wouldn't be) you could say 1 week paid holiday and 3 weeks unpaid.

If this person is behaving like this during their probation, they will be a fucking nightmare if you take them on permanently! This is simply not acceptable behaviour. If you take a job, you should know that you have to get leave approved by your line manager BEFORE you book it. Also, many businesses wouldn't let you take four weeks in one go, particularly when you've only accrued 5 days' leave so far AND you're still on probation. This person is a cheeky fucker and you'd be mad to just go 'Okay, see ya in 4 weeks. Sure you can 'work' from Australia or wherever it is, I'm sure you'll be a fabulous employee during that month that you can't possibly do your job'.

I would either fire them for breaking the terms of their contract/probation or, if you really don't want to do that, say they can take unpaid leave and their probation will be extended by a month when they get back. But if you just agree to this you're rewarding this person's behaviour and creating a monster to manage in future.

It sounds like at interview or at the start of their contract, this junior employee mentioned some travel / holidays in passing, but never actually put in a formal request or chased it up with management until now.

Sounds very unreasonable to me. When I joined my current company, I had some overlap with running projects and I did mention it when appointed, as we were discussing starting date. However, it was my responsibility to formally enquire about how it would work once I joined the company in person. I didn’t just assume they would accommodate me, just because nobody had opposed my plans at first. I had to follow the procedures and until it got officially approved, I was aware I might need to cancel those other projects if my main employer didn’t sign off on it.

This. If you think they’ll pull this stunt again and aren’t doing well enough in probation then you can always fail their probation. Your HR department should have strict guidelines around leave and working abroad during probation. I mean they haven’t racked up the hours for 4 weeks holiday so they’d only get what 1 week’s paid leave and the rest would be unpaid. Or are they stupid enough to think the whole leave will be paid and that rules (wfh whilst abroad) don’t apply to them so they can do what they like? I’d also either have a word or get HR/manager to point out that you just don’t do this in work, there are protocols to follow. Youth shouldn’t be an excuse either.

This

Unless this was prebooked before their interview… not a chance!

Suggesting to work remotely whilst on holiday is entitled and risks security… do they have a private place to work etc?

I’d say they can take it unpaid but their probation will be extended to account for the time not working.

It's ridiculous to me you or her are even thinking about how she could do the work remotely from her holiday?! It's clearly a holiday and needs to be treated as such. You can refuse her the leave. But the notion it could be a remote working arrangement is utter pie in the sky.

Do they understand that that isn’t how this works? They have to book annual leave if they want to go away. They can’t just say “I’ll be working from abroad” and tell you the required adjustments.

Have you not said to them, “I don’t think you’re clearly understanding employment. If you want to go away then you need to request annual leave, and wait for it to be approved. You cannot work from abroad on your own terms whilst having a holiday.”

They sound like they’re going to be trouble, so fail their probation and get rid.

Was there any discussion at interview..a lot of organisations honour holiday already booked prior to the job offer?

Working while away is usually a non-runner for a junior, and let's face it isn't really going to be particularly successful if they're travelling. Depending on the job role and discussion at interview it's either unpaid leave or resignation.

I think you are mad to be even considering it.

I reckon this person will be difficult to manage in the long run.

I'd tell them that it was very unprofessional of them to book leave without clearing it first. So no, I cannot facilitate a month out of work as you suggest, it is not practical or good for our business.

Would you like to cancel or leave? Otherwise I will have to terminate your employment (it's within the period when it can be done without fear of tribunals!)

Otherwise if you don't want confrontation, I'd let them go and terminate at the six month end of probation.