AIBU to think a junior probationer’s month abroad request is unreasonable?

If they are still in probation and would normally work in the office then I would refuse working remotely abroad purely on the basis that it is not how they would work if they were fully trained and compentent and they aren’t yet, they are still learning and in probation.

Location, data security, end-user security, continuity of internet service are all additional factors. It then comes down to whether you would be willing to approve unpaid leave as they don’t have the annual leave allowance to cover it and whether your business can absorb the loss of resource.

Ok that is a little different as they will likely be in a private residence. Will they dp nights there so during the working day in the UK ?

You don’t need to do that. The person has tried to be cheeky, it hasn’t worked, don’t do them any favours by agreeing to “find a way for it to work”. You’ll end up taking on their extra work during those 4 weeks, and they’ll have learnt they can take the piss any way they want to. Don’t set that precedent.

So is it a holiday, or are they going home for some reason and could work from there? I think this needs further discussion.

Is this your company @estrogone ?

Sorry just seen your update.
That says that they know they are taking the piss and are too cowardly to ask face to face.
It's also left you with an issue in your time off.
I'd really be tempted to email with

1. the length of time is unreasonable
2. the notice given is unreasonable
3. you have not accrued sufficient leave
4. four weeks continuous leave would only be granted in either exceptional circumstances or to a time served employee Taking the above into account I'm declining your request.

And then I would leave it.

The last company I worked for had the following rules which I felt were pretty fair
*Any leave above 2 weeks had to have special approval
*Any working from home that wasn't your home had to have approval from your line manager and you could demonstrate that you had equivalent facilities - desk, quiet space, reliable secure internet
*Any working from home had to be in done during normal office hours for work location and during the normal awake time in the time zone you were working in.
*Any working from home not in your home for longer than 3 days had to get special approval

They brought the rules in the office managers partner took a job abroad with a 6h time difference. They were trying to go out there but continue working. It was a bit of a nightmare as you couldn't reliably get hold of them during the morning and then they were rushed in the afternoons trying to fit a days work into the half a day where the time zones were compatible.

25 isn't that young. One of my children is in a very responsible role indeed and is younger than 25... She has herself had to manage CF juniors (in one case older than her by a couple of years) and sought advice, but nothing as CF as this! Taking age into account has expired by 25 years old I think - supposedly neurological puberty is finally complete at 25!

On the other hand I've also lived and worked for decades abroad and encountered this attitude that employers essentially have to facilitate long visits to your country of origin (from people with all sorts of countries of origin including, but not limited to, all the big English speaking countries...). Unless it's been agreed formally, in writing, there is no such special entitlement (although exceptions for a very close family member such as a parent being at the end of life are obviously humane and not unreasonable).

I've heard and seen lots of raging about the unfairness of being turned down for long periods of extra paid leave/ wfh for visiting county of origin, and wonder if it stems a bit from the "ex pat contacts" which used to be more common and explicitly allowed a long period of leave every second year or similar and even paid for flights - those contacts were only ever for very special hard to fill roles of the type that couldn't be filled locally, and they're far rarer now than 20+ years ago. They'd never have accommodated the office junior on probation even in their hayday!

I suspect all the special wfh arrangements of the pandemic and the social media digital nomad "context creators" have fueled misunderstanding and unfounded expectations too!

25 is too old to just indulgently make allowances for being so naive though.

If they don't have the leave accrued then they can surely only take the days they have? I don't think you need to allow them to 'work' while on holiday in a different time zone and I don't think you need to give them unpaid leave.

This.

Also as others have said, they won’t have accrued that amount of leave yet and it may go against annual leave policy, it would ours.

So 17 days, 5 days annual leave accrued? I’d offer to let them bring forward a further 5 days of this years allowance and 7 days unpaid as it’s not compatible with wfh. But does depend on whether there’s any precedent of wfh overseas, if there is then I’d potentially be offering those 7 days as half days spread over 2 weeks

Just say no. I just turned down a request from someone who wanted a 6 week career break. She's been with us 16 months which is less time than the 2 year requirement to be eligible for a career break in our policy and it's at our busiest time.

You really don't have to do anything at all to accommodate this and if you do you'll be setting a precedent for this person to take the piss plenty more times in the future.

@estrogone Never been in a job where you did not need to get your holiday approved. If they have booked it already though I think you should say take all the holiday you have accrued and the rest as unpaid. Still a pain for the rest of you covering their tasks

This is priorly booked and she asked. Even so, a company would be within their rights to refuse prior booked leave but most do allow it if asked/told.

If they booked the trip while job seeking, that’s their problem.

Id advise suck up the costs of replacing. Employees like this so early on get emboldened and just get worse IME then go off with stress etc

If it wasn't booked prior to them starting and not discussed at interview then that would be a non starter where I work. Long term staff might get approval but need to request permission booking. Someone on probation would not get clearance even for a holiday for that period never mind permission to work abroad.

if this is how they behave on probation they sound like they might be a problem employee

You also need to factor in the impact on existing staff who carefully consider leave and give sensible notice etc. I had one junior colleague who once said " you have to say yes, I've already booked it." My response was that I didn't have to but would ( made no difference to me really)
Second time i just refused and gently suggested she needed to get a grip!

I think anyone who behaves so carelessly so early on is like to keep doing similar things. I would say that no adjustments are available but if they want to stick to contracted hours from abroad that's up to them.

I agree with this but also, if you agree - and keeping in mind that is likely going to inconvenience your work/service a lot - you are making a rod for your own back as a) they’ll not learn you cannot do that and b) others will want to do the same.

That’s their problem

If it was booked before employing them I’d grit my teeth and honour it. Travelling can help youngsters settle down in the long term. Are they offering to work while abroad to try not to let the company down?

At 25 they have a long working life ahead and they may work harder for you for your generosity in allowing them to go. However, I probably would tell them to take it as unpaid leave for the part that is currently over the holiday they have accrued.

And also explain that either way this is a black mark on their probation.