AIBU to think a junior probationer’s month abroad request is unreasonable?

Most final stage interviews ask if you have pre booked holiday, or certainly at offer stage.

Right so breached.

and if you accept their proposal - you’d be breaching it.

I would accept unpaid leave only and ONLY of that is in line with the policy.

what does the owner think?

If they did think it was okayed then that's their mistake. Companies have processes to get leave signed off. It'll be in their contract.

And use this as an opportunity to review your onboarding process. Things like this (what’s acceptable/ unacceptable) need to be spelled out from the start. I’ve learnt the hard way that what I view as obvious (or common sense) based on attitudes 30 years ago in the working work is not the same for new starters now.

I have an incredibly flexible employer and working abroad is a fast no under any circumstances. Much to the annoyance of people with family abroad.

And no policy at all regarding leave and probation?

If you don't want to lose them, offer a month's unpaid leave or part annual leave/ part unpaid but no working from abroad bollocks.

If they are revealing themselves as a but of an arse, perfect opportunity to refuse the holiday they'll either resign or play some version of silly buggers like getting signed off with stress for the month and thej you can fail their probation.

I’d say tough. It’s a hard lesson but they need to learn it.

Your workplace has a definitive policy

@estrogone makes no such mention of one

Tbh I think it could work but you don't want it to. So you may as well say no and then they'll leave.

I thought YANBU until you mentioned 'their country of origin'.

So they're basically going home for a month? That's very different to going to Bali from the UK if you're a Brit for example.

Yes it's not ideal. I would suggest make them take it as unpaid leave, but also, since they're going home it's not quite so outrageous as previous suggestions.

I am tempted to hard arse it, but they are 25 and would lose thousands.

Their own fault. They're an adult. They make their own choices.

Someone in my department did something similar. We simply said no - they lost a three week holiday. Not our problem.

Either they're a fool for booking a holiday without first having the annual leave approve (and you don't want someone that incompetent working for you - and if they booked before you hired them they should have told you at interview), or they did it on purpose to force your hand (and you don't want someone like that working for you).

This shows a startling lack of awareness of how ‘working’ works. My workplace has a limit of 3 week’s leave at a time and when I went back to the states for a month once (have worked there 20 years and this was a specific post Covid thing as we hadn’t seen our parents for 3 years), I had loads of hoops to jump through to get permission to work one afternoon a week over my absence so I could keep up with anything urgent or HR related. Many hoops. We also can’t work in another country more than 2 week’s a year so there’s that.

I would have a serious chat with all the relevant policies in front of you and honestly would likely let go if that’s an option. If you refuse to let them go they’ll just be a bad employee afterwards anyway, and you really can’t support this sort of nonsense.

Say yes, but unpaid, and probation extended by another month. Would it really be worth sacking/rehiring etc? Could make it clear it’s an absolute exception and if they take the piss again, the answer is no!

For tax reasons, we're only allowed to work (from Europe) a max of 20 days a year. We have fixed office days and can flex one week a year where those can be from abroad. Say your office days are Mon/Tue, you could work abroad Wed-Fri of week 1 and Mon-Fri of week 2. You could also take Mon/Tue of week 3 annual leave and work abroad Wed-Fri week 3.

But the work abroad hours are to meet fixed "must be available" hours of 10am - 4pm UK time. And then you can make up your additional hours whenever that day.

Your employee sounds like they've booked a holiday and want to get paid whilst away. I'd turn that down no hesitation. They can take unpaid leave and have probation extended by a month.

Emsil back along the lines of

as per company policy leave has to be applied for and granted - you have not done this. You have booked an extended holiday without getting your leave granted.

we cannot grant this leave at such short notice.

your choices therefore are to cancel the holiday and reapply for leave in the usual manner at a later date or leave our employment as you are not fulfilling your side of the contract.

REQUESTS for modified working hours will always be considered in line with our policy - you have not made a request but a demand . This is not how business works.

failure to turn up for work on 1st - 28th month you booked holiday without authorisation - will be a breach of your contact and you will automatically fail your probation and be terminated immediately.

etc etc etc

it is not your problem that they are 25 and going to lose a lot of money. At 25 you are plenty old enough to realise that you ask for leave and wait for it to be granted before booking.

frankly the loss of this employer doesn’t appear to be a bad thing. If this is the level of intelligence and entitlement they show in the workplace - they must be an absolute nightmare to manage.

when you are in probation period - you do everything in your power to abide by all the rules and procedures as you know your job is not guaranteed until you pass probation.

basically I think they have just utterly failed their probation period and I would not get into thoughts of what they will lose. That is their problem not yours.

actions have consequences and this means they will be looking for a new job if they carry on with their holiday,

I'm stunned at the amount of people saying agree to unpaid leave. That's still allowing it.

They knew exactly what they were doing and should face the consequences.

Given when they sent the email that's even worse
And all this is their best behaviour for their probation? I can't imagine what their normal or worst behaviour would be.

"The last company I worked for had the following rules which I felt were pretty fair
*Any leave above 2 weeks had to have special approval"

I was going to say the same. We didn't do WFH so the rest wasn't needed but definitely special permission needed for anything longer than 2 weeks leave.