To think that school should take all kids who want to do Bronze D of E?

In our school, dc have to apply in September. They are then registered on the scheme and have to start all their sections - volunteering, skill and physical.

They review them all at Christmas and say anyone who hasn't started a section cannot continue.

They then get to Easter and say anyone who hasn't completed at least one section can't do the expedition.

They then attend training and planning groups and have to do both a practice and final expedition in the summer term.

If OP DS school is similar then it sounds like he has only really expressed an interest now his peers are preparing for their expeditions. I think all schools would turn down a late entrant at this point in the process.

For those posters demanding more dc get to do these things or that schools take all comers - it is a.massive amount of unpaid extra work for staff and they do it in their own tome. Schools can't ask they run double the number of sessions when they're already doing it for free. The school would need to buy more equipment like tents and stoves too.

My daughter missed out on DoE at school. They used to allow everyone who applied to do it. Hers was the first year they capped numbers and she missed out. I was furious.

She never got a place on any kinds of school trip but many kids got places on everything. It was very unfair.

Is it literally a case of 200 kids in the year and 180 are going?
Or 50 kids are going but it just so happens that all of your child's friends are?

Of course it’s reasonable to be limited by resources

It’s really common to restrict numbers because the school staff / company they contract can only supervise a fixed number on the expedition.

Any school trip including DofE expeditions has strict adult to student ratios.
DofE tends to happen at weekends so it involves a large number of staff volunteering to give up their free time unpaid. The school I work at has space for 2/3 of the year group which is allocated by lottery. We run this in house with DofE qualified teachers rather than use a company as it reduces the cost for students greatly. This meant that around 25 members of staff gave up a whole weekend of their time unpaid for these students and we struggle to get this many volunteers. I sometimes wonder if parents understand what goes into organising extra curricular activities and how much relies on the goodwill of staff members.

I would ask the school to tell you the exact reason why your child didn’t get a place though, and why they’re unwilling to work with you to find a way to let them take part.

If it’s not strictly numbers and they are able to take any more, I do think they should allow them all to take part. I don’t think they should write any kids off as unable to do it until they’ve tried.

This sounds a good suggestion!

Of course they aren’t the ones who benefit most - they all benefit equally! All kids could do with more time outdoors, learning skill and new activities, volunteering for the good of others and learning to be organised to put all this together.

I have a girl and a boy and have never seen schools discriminating against boys - if anything there’s still that slight drag in their favour, accepting lower standards from them etc

@Lessexpected I'm grateful you posted this as I did not know some schools did this.

1. Write to the school stating the reasons this is unfair and asking about the selection process. In your letter (Send by email and mark as important). If you feel your child has experienced discrimination, quote the DoE EQ policy https://www.dofe.org/policies/equal-opportunities/
2. Request a meeting with Headteacher or staff member responsible for the children doing the DoE and write a list of questions to ask them. It may help you prove that it's wrong to exclude some children from the DoE if they really want to do it.
3. If they say the school can only have a set number of children due to safety or risk reasons ask them to be specific about what those safety reasons are. If they need more help, consider whether you can help over weekends when they do the expedition. If you are able to help, then they may allow your child to do it. I wouldn't mind betting 'risk' is a big thing - teachers hate doing risk assessments and to be fair, they are an absolute pain in the arse whatever your profession/job.
4. Cost may be an issue so be prepared with how you may deal with that one.
5. I agree with other suggestions about alternatives like Army Cadets.
6. You could try writing to the CEO of DoE scheme but I don't think it would make much difference but Health & Safety and Risk are something the school have to manage if they are leading it.
7. Good Luck.

It is limited in ds’s school, I don’t think it is that usual to limit.

Limiting numbers is one thing but offering trips/activities where all but a handful are allowed to participate seems off to me.

I’d suggest they join your local Army Cadet Force. They do way more things, go away regularly and they also do DofE and other qualifications too. I firmly believe that being in ACF and everything he achieved there was a huge part of the reason my son got 5 unconditional offers for uni.

At our school the teacher who runs it does it in his own time so I expect if it’s similar in yours that may limit it. There are other routes to do it, eg Scouts and my youngest did it through air cadets. I did it at school nigh on 40 years ago and hardly anyone did it, now so many do it I don’t think it counts for much the way parents assume b with UCAS etc. My eldest hasn’t done it as Covid struck just when he was of the age, he hasn’t bothered but is a Scout leader now.

At our school the DC have to write a letter saying why they want to do it and outline what activities they are going to do. I think in dd1's year about 40 kids took part. Dd1 only just about managed to write her letter, but she completed the award but decided not to continue to silver. I don't know if every child got a place who applied. Anyone with a certain number of behaviour points that school year wasn't allowed to take part.

Complain to the headmaster and governers / trustees. Many schools discriminate against boys despite boys being the ones who actually benefit most from it.

When our eldest did it the limitation was just down to logistics - the teachers who ran it did so on a voluntary basis, they just didn’t have enough suitable people to offer it to everyone and not enough equipment . In his school it was 40kids who got to do it and the school struggled to fulfil that. I can’t remember the criteria for doing it but there were some.
I would ask politely why they didn’t get a chance and if the numbers shift, if they could possibly get a place. Otherwise look at other groups such as scouts in your area who may do it, if they really are interested.
its fun to do but missing out on it has very little real world consequences

We simply don't have the resources to offer it to everybody so we score the applications, look at need and apply the criteria as fairly as possible. There are opportunities to do it elsewhere so if students are cadets or scouts or similar, we encourage them to do it through them instead to free up our numbers.

Ours did it with guides and scouts as schools didn't have a offer.

That's a shame. I'd want to know how students are selected. It may simply be names drawn out of the hat.

DD has just done her Bronze. The school didn't limit numbers but they did outsource the expedition part to an external company, although a few teachers were there too. We provided almost all of our equipment (apart from the tangias for cooking) and provided all transport. It cost nearly £200 to do excluding equipment. I'm not sure how that compares but it was reasonably well run.

There were a few kids who dropped out after paying the deposit when they realised how much was involved or their circumstances changed. Perhaps speak to the teachers and see if your child can be a reserve in case anyone drops out.

Doing it through scouts or cadets is also another option.

My school limits the numbers and pulls names out of a hat. But those who still want to do it can do it privately and the school gives the name of a company and usually a parent sorts it out and it happens over the same days as the school trip.

Awful. I’d complain.

Our local school is limited places as they source to an external company. Some schools will limit places if the staff are volunteering and not enough volunteers.
Theres a great D of E through girlguiding locally volunteer run, guides pick that in preference to school. My friend’s dd did it via air cadets, also well run by volunteers.
If you’ve asked and school still saying no I’d look for guiding/scouting/cadets run scheme.

Our school limits numbers and also outsources it to a specialist company to run. No teachers attend and it’s not school equipment used. So I’ve no idea why they limit fully.

Though part of it is that you have to complete all the other elements to even be considered for the expedition.

It drags on for so long with all of this, that school don’t offer the silver award and skip straight to Gold in year 11.