AIBU to think my stepdaughter is testing household rules at night?

Yes YABU. Your rules are horribly restrictive and unnecessary. Would you like to be banished for 12 hours in your own home?

Plus just why, why can’t they just chill where they want until bedtime? You’re not running a juvenile detention centre.

Re snacks, my kids know to ask for stuff like biscuits and crisps but if they want toast and fruit they can get it whenever they want.

Wow that’s ridiculous!! I have 2 tweens/ teens and cannot imagine telling them they can’t come downstairs after 8.30pm like they are infants. It’s their home as well! We set a bedtime for the younger of the 2 but they can do what they like before that, watch tv with us, make drinks or whatever.

What's the big deal with wanting a drink or something to eat later on. She's old enough to make it and clear up after herself.

As a teen she should be more than capable and is definitely old enough. And old enough not to be sent upstairs at 8.30 too.

I'm not sure the DD is "breaking rules" so much as just living her life and living her life is not acceptable to the OP.

This is so far from draconian or abusive - how over dramatic. At 14, she can easily have a bath at 8:30 pm when she goes up. She can then read and play/do something until 9:30 pm or 10:00 pm with a drink in her room before sleep. This is perfectly reasonable. At 14, I imagine she’s capable of spending an hour and a half sorting out her own evening relaxation and bedtime routine. It sounds like she’s bored or is craving some conversation general attention before bed…I’d expect you or your wife to engage with her either in talk or a small activity before lights out to curb any loneliness or boredom etc. I’d just say you can do whatever you want during these times as long as you’re in bed by x time without the phone etc.

She’s breaking the rules because she’s desperate for some control over her own life. You need to relax and let her and the other children have some agency otherwise they are going to either rebel big time, struggle with their mental health or be able to develop their own decision making skills.

We have no rules as such in our house, my kids have just been brought up to be considerate, respectful and thoughtful by us modeling that behaviour to them. If they want a bath late at night then that’s fine so long as they clean up after themselves and don’t disturb anyone who is already sleeping. Ditto making drinks or food. It’s time you stopped treating your children like employees and more like individuals who have their own wants and needs.

One of my DD's housemates (there are four of them) moved in with them last year when an existing housemate moved out. The three existing housemates had developed their own household behaviours over time. The new housemate seemed to think that she could set all sorts of new rules that seemed pointless and arbitrary to the others (no leaving eg even a freshly washed cup to drain on the draining board, it must be dried up and put away immediately) while occupying shared space in a very full on way with a "Granny lifestyle" of baking bread, sitting around knitting etc. New housemate complained when other housemates had friends around to the shared house as she wanted peace and quiet. DD had to be quite fierce with the new housemate in explaining that she wasn't the rule maker and that the house had been rented precisely because it had a large kitchen/living area and garden so they could have lots of friends round, not to engage in a Granny lifestyle of baking, knitting, peace and quiet and obsessive housework.

Living with others requires give and take and it's very important IMO that family life teaches that.

I actually think you might be right about the rows between you and your dw being a key part of the dynamic.

But it strikes me from your post that maybe you think that your dw is causing the arguments by disagreeing with you. Do you realise that you could avoid the row by changing what you do? Either stay silent or cheerfully agree.

There is a lot of value in firm rules, and boundaries, but they can backfire on us if we are too rigid. It’s a good idea to revisit them, especially as parents because dc cognitive and biological developmental can change the parameters.

Go for a walk or a coffee with your dw when you need to discuss these things, do you can talk it out away from the dc. It’s never a good idea to debate in front of the children.

A couple of additional points to my previous post:
•at this age, individuation is developmentally appropriate and expected: she is supposed to be forging her own way, seeking autonomy and questioning boundaries. It's healthy and completely in line with her age. Don't make it about you, and certainly don't argue about it.
•could your step daughter, if she wanted to, access her mum for time alone on any given evening? I'm wondering whether your expectations around upstairs-time (even though you've since back-pedalled on this, explaining it as a more naturally occurring phenomenon than a rule -I'll come back to this) has made it harder for your step daughter to find times to effortlessly connect with her mum one-to-one? Or is the DCs' upstairs time sort of the time in your mind that is 'for you and your wife'? Your step daughter will be at a time in her life when she really needs her mum's ear, with you nowhere in sight, giving them both lots of uninterrupted space.
•my own DC gradually crept further into their own spaces, earlier and earlier in the evenings, entirely of their own volition, almost as if it was their own preference, at the time when xdp (their actual dad) began to 'expect things to be a certain way around here'. They just didn't want to spend time together anymore and peeled off to their rooms not to have to engage with his arbitrary ideas of 'ground rules'. On his hobby nights, they'd be downstairs chatting, singing, baking, watching TV, debating, having friends over, playing games -like normal kids. But on his nights in, they chose 'gadgets' upstairs, as you put it. When he scaled back his hobby to 'focus on the family', it became too much. He sounded just like you, believed he really loved us all, and couldn't see how trying to run a home this way was creating nothing but a holding bay for young teens who couldn't wait for his hobby nights, were desperate for sleepovers with friends (away from our home) and, by extension, to up and leave home at the earliest possibility. No violence, no shouting, no 'obvious' cruelty, just the subtle control of expectation.

Hence XDP.

If things feel a bit strained with your wife and you find yourself arguing, I strongly urge you to row this back and let her lead on the emotional 'climate' of your home. Get yourself out of the way and give them space away from you a couple of nights per week. You may not see the need, but they might find some relief in it.

My 14 year old is still at sports practice at 8:30pm. Not even home for dinner until 9:15pm. Of course, it’s ridiculous. It’s her home, not a detention camp. Why don’t you try going upstairs and staying in your room every night from 8:30pm if you want some quiet?

Kids need boundaries, rules and routines... However at 14 she's no longer a child and will be wanting to start gaining independence, and in some areas, yes, test existing boundaries.

At this age you're meant to be supporting her to grow up, try new things and see what works for her and what doesn't. It's better than she try now in the safety of her home than have a rush of freedom in a few years time.

My child is slightly older - no set bedtime (although home by 8.30/9 on school nights) and no restrictions on what she can take from the kitchen at any time. Maybe I just got lucky, but by relaxing rules slowly as she grew up she is learning her own likes/dislikes and growing routines that work for her.

When my nana was 14 her mum died and she was sent away to stay with an uncle but she returned home after 6 months. When she got home she found her dad had remarried. My nana went to the food cupboard and helped herself as usual but got a telling off from her stepmum saying she was to ask her for food from now on. My nana created a huge objection with her dad (who took her side). She moved out at 16. She never forgot this though from her stepmum.

Spot on with your last paragraph and reflects how I brought my own children up. My children were and are (as adults) the least feral people you could meet.

I don’t think your stepdaughter is doing this to cause rows too.

She needs more freedom. At 14 I was ravenous! Crème caramels (in pots), large bbq hula hoops and huge sandwiches were my snacks. I was regularly staying up late to watch French subtitled films (improved my gcse French no end!).

This can't be a real / true post. I hope it isn't anyway.

To answer your specific question, 14 is peak boundary pushing time so she may be doing it purposefully but in this case she is justified because the rules are too rigid. I’m glad to see you are going to have a think about this OP, which will be to your credit.

When my dd tells me about the antics of kids at school it’s often the ones with strict parental rules who are the wildest because they rebel or break the rules behind parents backs. Responsible and respectful kids are not created by arbitrary rules but by giving them respect, allowing them responsibility and helping them to develop and understand their own boundaries.

I think you’re a bit obsessed with boundaries and rules. How was your own childhood?

You sound awfully strict. Don’t get me wrong, I believe in having heathy boundaries for children. Yours are way beyond healthy boundaries. Are your children terrified of you? Have you thought of the messages you are sending as these children grow older? I’m not surprised your SD is playing up. She’s of an age where she can see they are totally unreasonable, arbitrary rules and is pushing back against it.

Rules are fine. Your rules are absurd though.

We have a 14yr old, he is upstairs by 9.30 with no phone and lights out by 10.30pm. Sometimes he's only coming in from sports close to that time so is having a shower.... thats perfectly reasonable, he is just expected to try to be queit as young kids are in bed (I.e. no shower concerts).

Our rules are lights out 10.30, no phone in room, and no snacking on junk food after 8.30pm. Tea, water, hygiene etc is absolutely not restricted because we actually love our kids... we don't want to abuse them?

I'm surprised your kids don't push more boundaries because you sound absolutely controlling and downright abusive. I actually also think your terminology is very strange... you've said you ALLOW your wide to make rules or comment on them also, as if that's very gracious of you.

Do these kids have involved other parents (aside from you and your wife) because I think the more they become teens the less time they'll want to live with you.

One of our children had an American girlfriend who, when we first met her, told us about the very strict household she had grown up in with a controlling father who didn't allow his children any social life. All the children had been to excellent universities and worked very hard and were professionally successful but the girlfriend behaved very strangely in our home and couldn't get with the household behaviours - she was emotionally detached in a very unusual way and, in particular, didn't pick up on our household habits and we found her disrespectful and disagreeable.

The way people behave at home needs to have give and take over time in order for children to learn how to fit in with others, make themselves pleasant company and develop emotional awareness of themselves and others. Overly strict homes with arbitrary and controlling rules don't do that.

@Feel2old you sound AWFUL. Controlling, coercive, unkind, bossy, unreasonable and incredibly insecure.

Your poor poor wife and children. I send them love and strength

I've never read anything so bizarre.

Rules should be about being kind to each other, helping around the house, no snacks before meal time. No loud music/TV or disturbing people after their bedtime.

You should not be restricting access to food, drinks, or general hygiene.

Do you ever spend time as a family and sit and watch TV together?

My DD at 14 would be at clubs or on her phone until abound 8.30 and would then spend time sat with us watching TV before bed.

How old are the other DC?

Mine weren’t finished sports practice and scouts until 9.30/10 by that age.

The op sounds like my dad. We weren’t allowed friends in the house once he arrived home from work.

After tea was homework in our rooms, we had to ask to be allowed to watch our programmes on the only television which meant we missed out on a lot of chat at school, and we had to ask for food and drink.

my mum didn’t stand up for us and I had no respect for either of them and left home at 16.

She's not doing things to get at you, and the fact you think she is suggests a very unhealthy dynamic to your relationship with her.