Andy Burnham - how can this be allowed?

Oh ok , makes sense . But it’s a bit of a kick in the teeth to the people who voted him as mayor.

I don't think you understand. Even if he is elected for makersfield, he then has to be nominated and voted in as Labour party leader. There are over 300,000 members of the Labour party and they will not all necessarily vote for him. Keith starmer also still has a chunk of support from people who understand that stability is essential, and that the scale of changes our country requires will take years, not months, and we need to give them time to do it.

Agree with this.

Labour members will be voting on whatever the candidates put forward as their vision for the country. (Well they should be if they are sensible)

So what percentage of voters are getting a say? Vanishingly small.

It has always been this way (not that I'm saying that is right, personally if a Party changes leader while in Government I think a general election should be called) - was this way even when Boris won, was this way when Rishi was picked by Tory Party members to be the Prime Minister...

Fair enough, makes sense.

Yeah it's one or the other. The only party who have any theoretical chance of both seats is Labour, everyone else is fighting for max 1. This does of course mean Labour have more to lose than anyone else, because any other party coming away with either of the offices is a huge improvement for them.

From socials, the Greens seem to fancy their chances at the mayorship. I've seen some activists advocating that they don't run/campaign in Makerfield, with a view to Burnham winning a a mayoral election being forced. They've no chance of winning Makerfield, so I get the rationale.

And Reform have absolutely nothing to lose. They’ll potentially win a MPs seat and a Mayor’s job.

Reform UK Party Ltd can't win both. If Burnham wins the by-election there will have to be a mayoral contest but if he doesn't win he will remain as mayor.

sounds like someone who knows where the bodies are buried

Josh Simons has been on a journey (I think someone shared upthread) - Head of Labour Together, campaigning to get KS elected, commissioned a dodgy report about journalists as part of KS election campaign, gained a seat, was promoted to Cabinet Office role, dodgy commission was revealed, was cleared of breaching code but resigned anyway, then stepped aside for AB, main rival to KS

Who knows what his motivation is and therefore what reward he is hoping for

Make him a spad, give him a seat in the House of Lords etc

politicians of all stripes seem to have no problem helping their mates tbh

I don’t understand how AB can help Josh Simons though, short of finding him a seat once AB gets back into govt (if AB gets back into govt)?

He's currently a back bencher with no prospect of anything else
He thinks the writing is on the wall for Starmer and probably the labour party
He thinks reform is a massive threat
He expects AB to remember who helped him on the way up.

“We vote for a party not a person.”

Well the Labour members who paid £6 a month (for I think at least 6 months) are going to get to vote for the person - if there is a contest.
Everyone else, including those who voted based on the Manifesto in the Last Election, but are not members - do not get a say. And those who did not vote Labour, won’t get a say either.

So what percentage of voters are getting a say? Vanishingly small.
Now that is really going to win them the next election?

Which is why a leadership contest in this particular context right now is extremely stupid of Labour.

We vote for a party not a person.

Its a good job too, we don't want british politics to become even more unstable than it currently is and personality politics feed into that.

We've had far too much americanisation of our society and this idea of voting for a single person is a further extension of American ideals. America is a morally bankrupt shitshow and we are in danger of going the same way.

We need stability, if labour choose Andy and you don't like the cut of his party's jib, don't vote Labour in the next general election. Simple.

We are soooo lucky to live in the democracy we do, despite the ups and downs. We've had too many Prime Ministers in quick succession in recent years, things need to settle. Not ill educated posts like the OPs trying to insinuate that we somehow don't live in a democracy. We very much do.

We've got enough on dealing with corrupt fascists like Farage convincing the poor, ill educated and hard of thinking that black and brown people are to blame for all their woes rather than it actually being rich, powerful, corrupt cunts like Farage himself and his shady backers.

He’ll probably get a job advising the new Mayor in some capacity or other.

Although they’re not making him give up the mayoralty until after the election? Can’t say I would be very happy to have a disengaged mayor for 6 weeks and then the election starts for a new one

And Reform have absolutely nothing to lose. They’ll potentially win a MPs seat and a Mayor’s job.
Labour have a lot to lose ..

He’s 32 and went to Oxbridge and Harvard and I’m sure is quite ambitious. He has 3 kids more pertinently who must be pretty young. Not sure I’d be best pleased if I were his wife!! He must be getting something in return.

But there’s no guarantee Burnham will keep the seat anyway.

Maybe they’ll do a job swap? Dunno.

Why is Josh Simon standing down though for Burnham ? What’s he’s getting in return ?
MPs on 90k a year don’t just give up a job after 20 months to give way form someone else..
Somethings not right here ..

I’m 68 and have never missed voting in a general or local election since I was 18 and Ive never voted for the party leader. I’ve always read the party manifestos and read about or talked to my local candidates and have voted mostly for the party’s policies but also partly on the basis of my local candidate(s). It would never occur to me to consider that I was voting for Keir Starmer, Kemi Badenoch, Ed Davey etc unless I happened to live in their constituency. The leader of the Labour Party is elected by the party’s members, not the electorate.

When we look at the educational outcomes of white working class boys - maybe they do have a point? Why are they so out of sync?

I think it isn’t just poverty and being left behind.
Some Reform voters seem to think the system discriminates against them and their culture and identity and instead promotes others who used to be on the margins. Some Reform voters believe the system has deliberately marginalised them.