Andy Burnham - how can this be allowed?

The so called Oxbridge male white Left Labour are all hot air and none of this is going to happen in 36 months so relax. It will be lots of hot air and no delivery and no substantial change from Starmer, just a lot of talk and promises.
It was the Tories that lowered the tax thresholds and came up with fiscal drag. Somehow the Tories always get away with extra taxes! Labour threaten a whiff of it and are destroyed for it. Labour are also the ones who can deliver on immigration - it is all counterintuitive really!

Who do you vote for if you are a homeowner, mortgage debtor, BTL"er, "accidental" landlord or just plain old property hoarder? A man with a big flag that says Eat The Rich! or a bloke with five houses? Difficult one.

Yep, but they fell for all the - Go to Work, Get a Big Mortgage, The Government Has Got Your Back! rubbish, the couch surfing benefits scrounging weed smoker is probably almost as well off as many in the middle, not from a mental health aspect because deep down he/she knows they are a waste of space, but from a daily Grind V Reward perspective definitely.

It’s always the middle who are expected to pay more.

https://propertyindustryeye.com/homeowners-brace-for-burnham-backed-double-death-tax-on-homes/
If this happens it won’t go down well!

He has always been like that, Corbyn was the same IMO, the fact that he failed to become leader twice previously and they need him now says everything about just how much of a disaster KS was.

AB is already insufferably smug - he really does think he’s King.

I also think Mahmood is strong and competent but it’s Labour - they would never put a brown Muslim woman in would they. It’s always a certain type of middle aged man, this time packaged with a different accent! That is about the diversity they seem to be able to muster.

I agree! I wanted Shabana Mahmood.

You appear to believe that pre July 2024, we had growth, productivity was up, unemployment wasn't continuing its upward trend & we didn't have 990,000 NEETs (we did)

I looked at UK growth over the last 4 years, growth since Labour took over, is higher than in the 23 months prior to the last GE, under Sunak, UK had a recession for 6 months in the last 2 quarters of 2023.

Benefits inc Pensions, the unemployment part of the benefits bill is far smaller.

Unfortunately, unemployment will increase, AI, Automation is inevitable, that in turn will lead to increases in productivity.

Policy needs to look at re skilling and the education system

Whilst everyone is against the business NI increases, no one can suggest the alternative way to raise the money needed to pay for Hunt s NI cut, public sector pre agreed pay rises and the PO and blood compensation bills.

I find it indicative of the arrogance and profligacy with others peoples money of this Labour Party that if Andy Burnham wins, the taxpayer will foot a £5million bill (for re-election of Mayor plus several hundred thousand for the by election) for something that is essentially Labour Party politics.

This is a situation purely engineered for the benefit of Andy Burnham, his career aims and the schemers on the left of the party. I can’t bear Starmer but I sincerely hope AB loses

So we should be doing really well and feeling the benefits.

The eye watering amounts of waste is negating all that and we are experiencing a decrease in living standards.

Unfortunately, UK business relied on low employment costs, with wages subsidised by the tax payer, this is slowly changing, meaning less people doing the same work or even more, raising productivity is vital

I’m not sure what you mean by that - unemployment is up, the benefits bill is unsustainably high - exceeding income tax take. The government have just added quite a bit to employment costs which discourages employment and will reduce growth which will increase the need for raising taxes as the increased volume (which would keep taxes lower) falls away. And as far as I can see it, there is more government subsidy of wages, not less.

Why do you think this is a productivity issue, not a failure in government control of finances?

Andy Burnham seems to be promoting his own manifesto for when he becomes prime minister, which seems to be a foregone conclusion.
The last labour manifesto was put forward by keir starmer. That was the manifesto that people voted for.
Andy should keep the manifesto that people voted for. Or call a general election for his new manifesto. Everyone who wants to pay more tax can do so.
Liz Truss went off on a tangent from Boriss manifesto. That ended well didn't it?

I still haven't heard the labour definition of what exactly a 'working person' is.

Highest growth in G7, inflation down and productivity per worker has risen more in the last year than the previous 6 years combined.

Unfortunately, UK business relied on low employment costs, with wages subsidised by the tax payer, this is slowly changing, meaning less people doing the same work or even more, raising productivity is vital

Never been more important to have the right skills.

If they didn’t waste such vast sums of money on everything they touch and stopped inhibiting economic growth they wouldn’t need to raise taxes so much.

I don’t think any of your ideas are going to work as the wealthy and the skilled are mobile and can get tax advice.

But their land is not mobile, hence one of the biggest arguments for LVT.

Top 1 per cent earners alone in this country with no wealth can get richer quicker in plenty of other countries that are actively competing with Britain for the very skilled. Britain already has a significant skills gap and is haemorrhaging talent...

If anything Britain needs to attract investment and skill into emerging technologies. The fact it’s doing the opposite is a national disgrace.

I'm not sure whether you're actually reading what I write. I agree with everything you've said here, which is exactly why I'm advocating shifting the tax burden AWAY from income tax.

@overunderover - I don’t think any of your ideas are going to work as the wealthy and the skilled are mobile and can get tax advice.

The emerging billionaire class and their control is an entirely separate issue.

Top 1 per cent earners alone in this country with no wealth can get richer quicker in plenty of other countries that are actively competing with Britain for the very skilled. Britain already has a significant skills gap and is haemorrhaging talent.
Socialist concepts are unworkable with open borders and freedom of speech. And the bond markets will punish anything hard that creates an even higher tax burden since 1945. If anything Britain needs to attract investment and skill into emerging technologies. The fact it’s doing the opposite is a national disgrace. More doctor strikes on the way too. Unfortunately the current lot appear to have no hand on the pulse whatsoever and no business acumen.

I have no objection to paying taxes but I do have an objection when the tax system is inefficient and creates friction. The NI increase being an example.

the problem with a wealth tax, for example, is that it starts by targeting high wealth but often misses and ends up getting the middle, and then the thresholds are frozen, or they have to be dropped because we are in a crisis and need to revenue raise, and before you know it everyone is paying it

Labour have always been the party of tax and spend and it doesn’t look like that’s going to change. I just wish they a bit more economically literate with it

How much more would you like us to pay?

I can't answer that question without knowing more about your circumstances and where you get your money from. Personally, I don't see it as a question of taxing mid-to-high earners (if that's what you are) more. Dynamic capitalism is degenerating into resource-inefficient rentierism and unprecedented levels of wealth inequality between the majority and the 1% (or even less than 1%). That inequality in turn threatens the very fabric of democracy by giving ridiculous amounts of power to a tiny number of capital owners whose capital spans national borders so can't be constrained by national governments.

Andy Burnham's noises about Land Value Tax are a step in the right direction - potentially a big one, although the question as always will be whether they can survive conservative influences within the Labour party and the inevitable onslaught of the right wing press. If it were up to me I would fundamentally restructure our whole attitude to tax along those lines - LVT, IHT, equalising (at least) capital gains tax with income tax levels, removing loopholes for the very wealthiest etc. - and if anything actually reduce upper middle earner income tax. (Given our high tax-free threshold, the income tax rate for lower earners seems like a reasonable minimum to support the concept of everybody contributing something).

The fact that it's more tax efficient to make your living simply by owning stuff than it is by actually working is both morally obscene and economically unproductive.

The NI is a jobs tax, it’s increasing youth unemployment in particular.

What makes you think I love the Labour party? I didn't even vote for them, and my post should make clear that I don't buy into the delusion they're selling.

What exactly did they lie about? They haven't raised taxes on working people.

@overunderover - thanks, both DH and I paying the 60% marginal tax rate, live in London where life is very expensive and have 4DC. Never Tory in the past.
How much more would you like us to pay? DC1 already settled abroad now in a very well paying job, I think DC2 is considering it. 2 of my brothers also left, both very high flyers (unlike me).
Like most of my professional friends we managed to get the Irish descent passport. None of us have to stick around for this nonsense, nor do our children. Is that really what you want?
I would happily stick around if we could afford to. I am just not sure my DC can afford to stick around in socialist Britain. One of my friends went back to Hong Kong recently, after professing it is already more socialist here than in Hong Kong. That is not a joke. It is what she thought after living and working here and handing over a majority of her earnings.

😂

And you sound like Mike Rawlins @blossomtoes 🌹🌹🌹