AIBU to find drag on mainstream TV disrespectful to women?

Les Dawson did make derogatory comments/stereotyped women etc, eg MIL jokes, and I'm more bothered about that than about how anyone dresses. I know it was a different time, and I respect you might say we would all have had those views if we'd lived at that time.

Ah. So, if a white man called himself 'Thuggy G', and dressed in stereotypical black gangsta apparel, loved fried chicken and watermelon, used stereotypical black vernacular, and played up other black stereotypes, it would be fine and not racist, as he hasn't changed his skin colour? Hmm...

Also, Harry Styles doesn't need to put on fake breasts to wear dresses. It's easy to choose dresses that won't gape, or get them altered.

I don't think any man wearing a dress or make up is automatically mocking women, no. But drag as it is currently and historically popularised is.

I used to love Paul O Grady as Lily Savage back in the day. I recently watched Drag Race for the first time and was appalled - once you see the misogyny you can't unsee it.

I don’t think it needs to be banned but hopefully enough people will see it for what it is and it can disappear under a rock so those with a fetish to dehumanize women’s bodily functions can find each other and no one else has to be exposed to it.

I don’t see it as art - the defence is men get a creative outlet (In a way that offends women) maybe they should just concentrate on expressing their feminine normally

I can’t ever see it getting banned because it’s men and they have the power - but I’d like to see the bbc stop investing and promoting it - I’m deeply offended

No definitely not - men can certainly wear any clothes but it’s the parodying women that I’m questioning

Married 4 times!!

still drag it says but not along the lines of “gay drag queens”

are drag queens always gay?

Skin color is an inherent part of a person. Makeup, painted nails, and dresses are associated with women, but aren’t part of women’s bodies. I agree that cartoonishly large fake breasts are disrespectful, although I can understand having smaller ones simply so your dress doesn’t gap and hang loose in front.

Unfortunately, I can’t find a relevant clip to post, but has anyone watched the series “Fellow Travelers”? There’s a drag queen character named Frankie who, in the 1950s, works as a singer/waiter in a secret gay bar, and wears drag on stage. He’s an effeminate gay man who’s always referred to as “he” and doesn’t act in a way that caricatures women. He just likes wearing makeup and glamorous dresses and singing songs that were written for female singers. And I don’t find that even remotely offensive. (There’s also a butch lesbian singer in a tuxedo.)

I agree that a lot of drag is tasteless, misogynistic, and gross. I just don’t think that any man wearing a dress and makeup is automatically mocking women.

Oh I was neither way but im
going to have a look now

I think just didn’t find him very funny

@UnfortunatelySo

yes the bbc - state sponsored misogyny

Op interested in why you didn’t mind dame Edna

just interested to hear - no challenge intended

I agree OP. Drag has always made me feel uncomfortable but this style of “extreme drag” is utterly demeaning. Anything that encourages people to think it’s fine is bad - and if the BBC are showing people on mainstream TV that are doing more extreme “comedy” online then the BBC is part of the problem.

I do find it interesting that there hasn’t been a similarly “hilarious” vein of comedy TV which shows women dressed like Mr Incredible waving two-foot-long fake floppy crimson schlongs and calling themselves “Rape Fiennes” as an incredibly witty play on the name Raphe Fiennes.

The reason is: because behind drag , we are talking about men - whether homosexual or not, they have always been the powerful oppressors - and many men have a fetish for feminisation. Like rape is about power as much as sex, this kind of fetishisation follows the same course - it’s not gently mocking. It’s a revolting distortion which women are supposed to laugh along with, just like we all used to laugh along with blackface and cruel racist jokes.

Why is it on us to prove that it’s not just offensive but actually socially dangerous? We have unmanageable amounts of sexual abuse in this country and no one wants to look at why. Part of the “why” is that we have normalised disgusting objectification of women - and men are NOT subjected to the same treatment. This is not harmless fun.

This ...

all I've done is point out that the assertion that drag can't be questioned is nonsense. Which it evidently is. If you don't want to engage with that be my guest.

Well said

I’m relieved to find I’m not the only one who it just doesn’t sit with right

Nobody is saying it can’t be questioned - quite the opposite - we are pondering it’s not being questioned more widely

you are taking comments too literally even when they are recombined to you more clearly

I won’t be responding to any more of your comments as you seem to just be here to derail the thread into an argument

I don't understand why drag is cool and funny and 'woke' but blacking up is a big no no...

the conversation doesn't make me uncomfortable. My comments were in response to the evidently untrue assertion that drag can't be questioned, and then the idea that women's questioning is of limited utility until men are on board too. If you want to reach men mumsnet is not the place to do it.

I used to work with a gay man who did drag. Some of his acts were funny but some were just not funny and disrespectful to women.

ive found it very useful to discuss as there is Not much discussion elsewhere

thank you OP - great information you’ve shared