Does this sound like neurodivergence or a sensitive temperament?

I have been reading through everybody's comments and thought I would just give my perspective.
My DS is 4 and will be 5 in November. He has been diagnosed with autism. The behaviours that you describe are very similar to that of my DS. He is a very social boy, great with imaginative play but struggles with every single aspect that you have listed.
Every child is different, regardless of ASD or not. Unfortunately everything you have listed could quite easily just be behavioural or could be neurodivergence.
Have school picked up on anything at all?
All I would say is to keep monitoring and if you really have concerns then seek professional advice.
I followed my gut with DS and I was right, despite on the exterior he could easily be passed as neurotypical

Normal child.

You've name changed and adjusted a few details but I recognise you.

Please please please get help.

Girls usually have mental hyperactivity. Although DC2 was physically hyperactive but I didn’t think anything of it because I am too so it seemed normal to me.

I think teachers have so many tricks up their sleeves to engage children that it is hard to notice a concentration issue, especially in a bright and motivated child.

I can’t advise on what the GP would say if the school is not supportive but I would press ahead. Maybe consider the Right to Choose pathway? That is going private but the GP can refer and •might• agree to prescribe the ADHD meds on the NHS. DC2 and I went fully private to a psychiatrist who used to be the consultant in charge of adult ADHD in
out local NHS trust. Luckily the GP agreed to take on the prescriptions straight away. If you do go fully private, choose a very well respected one. I found mine by googling something like ‘most experienced ADHD psychiatrists UK’.

incidentally if your DD does have ADHD, either you or her dad (or both!) probably have it too.

Thank you, yes we are getting there.

Both a real rule followers, it presents differently in both but they are both terrified of getting told off. They are also both terrible sleepers and always have been - my boy - at age 4 was going to sleep at 10.30/11 and up at 6.30ish with multiple difficult wake ups in between. They both struggle to get to sleep and then to stay asleep. I'd say both have a lot of anxiety - which we work hard on.

In school specifically:

One of my children was struggling academically, they were receiving extra support for this but it wasn't helping much, they also hated school (a lot) and were extremely shy and quiet, never joined in anything in lessons etc. I believe the key issues were around concentration, focus, lack of eye contact, trying to hide away, and often getting very overwhelmed and shutting down. They did have two friends so were social but otherwise very distant and disengaged - very reluctant to speak to an adult unless a very trusted one (so found it hard to engage with a supply teacher for example).

The other one is very different, they are very bright, top of the class, spoke early, read early - were reading chapter books at the end of reception. Super focused on routine, found transitions hard - struggles massively with any sort of change big or small. For example, the kids were all moved around the class after the first term to new seats, this led to weeks of tears and upset which took a long time to understand - the issue was that 'nothing looks right' from the new desk. They also have a lot of strict rules like if they touch their cheek, they have to touch the other cheek or they feel 'weird', they like to crawl around too which is odd - just little things. Unable to work in a group without getting very upset as people don't follow the rules (even if there aren't rules). Very black and white thinking and a very strong sense of justice (which is not a bad thing but can cause upset with friends at times).

They also both stim which was flagged - my girl mostly with her hair.

One is a girl and one is a boy - I would say my boy masks more than my girl actually - but they are both very different.

Well, she would tell you now that she was scared of classmates being sick and it was triggered by one of her friends sitting in class with one of those cardboard hat sick bowls - she has emetophobia. But she couldn’t/wouldn’t tell us that back then so she broke down in class one day and then for several months after that she was distraught when going in. We had help from a psychologist or psychotherapist through school (and a CAMHS referral that eventually resulted in an assessment) but it was only really the fortuitously timed lockdown break that reset things.

She had a couple of good years after that but Y6 was very hard (didn’t click with her teacher) and then the school refusal problems kicked in again at secondary, which I’d feared might happen as it is so common in autistic girls but they didn’t have the resources to put in (v minimal) requested preemptive support, we just had to wait for her to fall apart. Finally at the third attempt (and with great therapy and an EHCP) we seem to be in a good setting in Y9. I just mention this because if not identified early on and there is some neurodiversity going on with your daughter, she might muddle through primary ok but struggle later on.

A couple of things I remember from the early years: she would overreact hugely to minor advice (eg ‘Watch out for those stinging nettles’) and to changes of plan (eg a cafe running out of doughnuts). The keyboard warriors would put this down to crap parenting but it was RSD and the need for predictability.

School is still quite hard but she has come so far in other respects, 95% of the time to talk to her you wouldn’t know she was autistic.

Well it is long-winded process to diagnose and the person doing the diagnosis needs a high level of expertise. A consultant psychiatrist diagnosed DC2 and I. She gave us many many forms to fill out. She reviewed them to see if she thought she was likely to be able to diagnose us and decided it looked likely. We then each had a 3-hour appointment with her and then got a very lengthy report.

There are numerous difficult to diagnose health problems that present themselves differently in everyone eg Parkinson’s, ME/CFS. The skill of the doctor is to consider the expression of the symptoms and ask themselves if they fit the pattern of the condition they are looking to diagnose.

The other thing with ADHD - if you take ADHD stimulants and you have ADHD, they calm you down. If you don’t have ADHD and you take the medication, you will feel like you have drunk 6 double espressos in a row. So if you’re misdiagnosed (which is obviously possible but probably quite rare despite what many believe) it will become instantly obvious if you start the treatment.

I did various tests including puzzles, word tests and computer tests. Amongst other things they test reaction times vs accuracy, and test working memory (your ability to hold a piece of information in your mind and manipulate it). They also test IQ. I have no idea what tests they do for children, but in adults it’s a scientific assessment, not “opinion” IYSWIM.
It took 2 x half days so was pretty thorough!

I always knew are was passive and shy.
autism in girls can be very different. Although she doesn’t express her self in melt downs it is shown in other behaviours.
her social skills make school life very difficult because she can show 0 assertiveness - in primary school this was less of an issue.
now she has started secondary school all is sudden I can see it much more clearly.

Honestly, seriously, what 5 year old is not sometimes shy with authority figures?

She sounds great to me. Just leave her be herself. The world needs strong feisty women.

I don't mean this to be rude at all but if you don't mind me asking, how is ADHD diagnosed and distinguished from either other conditions or other non medical issues if there are hundreds of symptoms and.if they are so different in every person, are there particular universal traits that show someone has ADHD?

She sounds very like my 6 year old dd who has an autism diagnosis and a PDA profile.

My daughter never stops talking, seems sociable and in her diagnosis report is described as ‘unusually eloquent in speech’

I would post on the SN board because you won’t get help on AIBU from people who don’t know much about autism.

She sounds like a lovely little girl. All children have some difficulties sometimes with behaviour or shyness or doing things they don't like, and none of hers sound alarming or particularly unusual. She's only little and if you work on these things with her and as she matures I think it's likely they'll improve.

DC2 was diagnosed at age 20 just after starting uni. I didn’t notice anything particularly untoward in primary school, although I didn’t know anything about neurodivergence back then. I probably would have realised if I knew then what I know now. From about year 8 onwards, DC2 started having obvious problems with anxiety. Both I and the school tried endlessly to help but nothing much worked - what would have probably worked would have been ADHD medication. When DC2 went to uni, it then became obvious, even to me, what the problem was. It

The rejection sensitivity dysphoria stuff sounds very familiar. The other stuff you mention less so, but it is not that much use ro
compare because ADHD can have 100s of ‘symptoms’ and they express themselves differently in each person.

if you want to ask anything else, feel free.

I’d get the ball rolling for a diagnosis in your shoes. There is a long wait and the sooner the diagnosis and treatment, the better.

First of all, I have an ASD and ADHD diagnosis and it can be genetic. She has always been a bad sleeper, takes ages to get her to go to sleep. She is very active and high energy, doesn't sit still, struggles to concentrate in school and at home if doing her reading for example, doesn't take instructions well, appears to not listen, fussy eater, sensory issues, meltdowns that last longer and are bigger than normal tantrums, she will scratch and hit us and we often have to restrain her, she sometimes runs away outside not caring about traffic, late to toilet train and it took a long time, she's not dry at night yet.

She is very social and has friends (although struggles with taking turns/not getting her own way), does well academically at school as she is bright, good at maths, good at sports, enjoys her after school activities.