To wonder why parents choose to forward face their child from a young age?

DD2 "only" rear faced to 2.5.. but it was actually easier fo her to see and chat to her sister (18 months older) in a FF seat as they could see each other a lot more easily than both in seats facing the same direction.

At 2.5, her sister started school, and tge screaming, breath holding and sickness started.

(Elder DD dudnt haveca RF seat as they werent available in mainstream shops in 2012, and they were in 2014.)

Switched to forward facing from around 14 months because car journeys were horrific. Prior to that I would avoid the car as much as possible. Poor baby wouldn’t stop screaming and it wasn’t safe to drive. Even for a very short journeys. She hasn’t screamed in her car seat since putting her in a forward facing car seat. Car journeys are easy and safe now.

Cost of the car seat was a big factor, also eldest had car sickness, I felt very judged about this but I dont drive and they were rarely in the car anyway so statistically at less risk than my friends kids that were in the car everyday, I remember literally rattling around in my parents van with no seat belt as a child so things have changed massively in the last few years!

My youngest didn’t rear face, after he came out of the baby car seat, as his siblings hadn’t. He liked to see them, and see where he was going, and I liked to see that he was ok.

Plus he was very tall, and although a car seat salesman tried to jam him in the chair and seat, rear facing in the shop, I refused, when he was upset.

A friend with twins had her primary school children rear facing, it looked bonkers, and their school friends thought it very odd.
I thought it bordering on cruelty, and she was an odd woman, in other ways, it turned out.

Do what you’re happy with, and the rest of us will too.

Oh OK! 😆 Good to know.

Oh I've just realised you're not the person who came out with the claim about behavioural issues in the first place! You and I think the same.

Apologies, the confusion is completely my fault. It's obviously fucking idiotic to think a 1 year old crying because they're uncomfortable in a car seat is a behavioural issue.

Not a surprise you’re using such inappropriate demands as ‘proving a claim’ on something that is not a hard-science proposition – especially if you believe such an imprecise label as ‘a behavioural issue’ in crying in discomfort for a 15 month old.

A behavioural issue implies atypical or maladaptive behaviour patterns. Crying, protesting, and dysregulation at 15 months are extremely common and age-appropriate.
Toddlers at that age lack self-regulation and reasoning abilities. So the default assumption is ordinary developmental behaviour unless there’s evidence otherwise.

Distress can (sometimes) be supported. A distressing situation can (sometimes) be made more tolerable. Those are the elements that may decrease distress – not viewing distressed crying in a 15 month old as a behavioural issue.

My van seatbelts weren’t long enough and I didn’t have isofix 😳. Thanks Nissan! Went with the Cybex Pallas S fix with impact shield.

Prove your claim.

Not all cars can have them safely installed, they are large and a badly fitted rf seat is worse than a properly fitted ff seat. They didn’t even exist until recently and our kids were fine ff my dd did have an accident and her properly installed ff saved her life, the car went into the back and was lodged against her seat back, policeman said if she had been in an infant carrier she would have been killed - it was the first day going ff! Ok specific circumstances but you can see it’s complicated

No, just an accurate one.

No, because it's about the direction of travel not the point of impact. With both head on and rear end accidents, passengers are flung forwards toward the front of the car (unless you're reversing at speed but that's entirely unlikely) so if a child is in a rear facing car seat, they are essentially pushed backwards and the impact is absorbed by the back/shell of the car seat rather than the head being forced forwards and the strain being put on their neck.

OK I'll bite

Since you seem to have all the answers what is the solution to a hysterically screaming 1 year old?
One that screams so much they vomit every time you put them in the car. What aspect of their behaviour am I as a parent not addressing?

Mmm, that was a concerning claim.

I think as I had second child and spent more time as a parent I just got a bit more reasonable around risk. I feel mostly safe driving in this country and only use the car for long trips three to four times a year, I was happy to move to front facing around 12 months. It felt OK even though I have read all the research and seen the videos. I felt like the likelihood something awful happening was so minute.

My DD is 22 year old so extended rear facing wasn’t a thing but yes she vomited rear facing - until around 15 months and it stopped when she was forwarded facing.

And some of the RF seats go up to 36kg/125cm and can be fitted on the front seat with airbag disabled, if that would solve the visibility issue. If you wanted to look into those, I'd contact one of the ERF specialists who is more sympathetic to reasons people have to FF - probably Rear Facing Toddlers/Margaret in Croydon, In Car Safety Centre in Milton Keynes, or Little Peas in Scotland.

Oh I'm so glad to hear that. There is a newer 25kg harness seat by Joie (i-Irvana Max) which possibly has better safety as it conforms to the newer standard, the fitting is a bit easier, although the Bold is fine - many MNers use it - but it does have a stated height limit on the harness of 125cm. If you wanted to enquire into whether that is strict, sometimes if you write directly to the company and ask to speak to their technical team they will give you individual advice for your specific child, which is not generally applicable. But the Bold is also a good option, and the i-Irvana Max is also £55 more expensive (but granted, it's not £2k!)

Around 18 months DD became a nightmare in the car. Getting her into the seat meant holding her in place whilst she screamed and arched her back until she would briefly stop arching her back. In that second, we’d get the straps on her to buckle her in. If we couldn’t do it in that small window we’d have to wait until she next drew breath. We’d then have to put the Houdini straps on her because she’d be trying to break out straight away. She forward faced so I could see her straps and tell her no when she would try to do undo them. If she wasn’t forward facing, she was also grabbing the seat belt on her seat (using her feet to grab it and then bring her feet to her hands to play with the belt) and I was worried she was going to strangle herself. She was less risk to herself forward facing and I was a better driver because I could see her clearly.

That phase wasn’t actually that long (although it felt it incredibly long and very stressful at the time) and she did go back to rear facing because she was suddenly OK with the car again. She then stayed rear facing until about 3, maybe older and only went forward facing because she sized out of her seat.

@BertieBotts You absolute star, thank you so much. It looks like it could work, you're right I had been told there was nothing on the open market that would work but I think this might.

For sure, it's very difficult to RF in a tiny car with a tall child who doesn't like to cross their legs, needs the seat reclined, and a tight budget necessitating using the existing seat or stretching only to a cheaper seat, and two tall parents. If you have everything like that then it's likely to be tricky to get it to work and it might ultimately not.

But if you can compromise on one of the things, usually the size of the car or the budget for the seat, but also possibly things like the positioning of the seat (e.g. amount of leg room, recline, fitting in middle or front seat, DC one in front of the other) or the recline of the front seats, then it can work. Or you can at least RF until say age 2 if not age 4. Yes there are scenarios where it won't work at all, but I think you can't have everything. People change their car all the time to make more space for DC in general, not only to fit RF seats in. We changed the Swift because we couldn't fit the buggy and a week's shopping into the boot at the same time. And you don't need a car to be gigantic to fit RF seats in, a medium sized car is usually fine. Most extremely tall people don't drive extremely small cars in the first place, and DC usually have long legs or need recline, not both at once (although some cheaper seats can only be fitted reclined).

People do often assume that RF seats take up a lot of space, but if they are more upright they don't need to. We had a Joie 360 Spin (which is the smallest spin seat but not smallest RF seat) in a Suzuki Swift and I didn't have to have the front seat in the most forward position. I found it took up less room than the baby seat, which was much more reclined.

I totally understand and defend "It didn't work with the specific seat we had and we didn't want to research and source a new one when we could just FF" but it is a bit frustrating to see repeated suggestions that RF is frequently impossible unless you have a stretch limousine because that's just not true IME. You would be surprised what can fit if you are willing to spend a bit of time and yes sometimes a bit more money, which I appreciate is not always an option (I would never suggest going into debt for a car seat, especially if you already have one.)

OTOH someone said about a safety gap for FF and that is misleading as well, because the gap is measured from a different part of the seat and is usually only relevant for sports cars where the front seats literally overlap the back seats. It's also only for the legal standard, and not usually instructions for the user, although it is good practice to move front seats away from FF children if possible. I don't know of any RF seat which actually fits within the 50cm gap used in testing for an R129 FF seat. Sometimes a FF seat fits where a RF seat does not, and sometimes a specific seat fits FF where it does not RF, and it's not unsafe to do that necessarily. Generally though if you are breaching the 50cm gap you'll also be squashing the FF child's legs.

OTOH if space is tight, arguably it may be safer to RF because if there is any potential for forward rotation, a RF seat forms a barrier between the child and the seats in front, reducing the risk of head injury. Most seats are allowed to lightly touch the front seat, just not to be wedged up tightly against them. Older seats were designed to do that, but they are no longer sold.

Gallery of ERF in small cars, just for interest, although it's old now: http://erfmission.com/you-cant-rear-face-in-small-cars-debunking-myths-4/

DS was very tall. I kept him rear facing for longer than most people seemed to, but eventually it got too difficult to get him into the car, especially when he started fighting any attempt to get him in rear facing.

Hysterical screaming and crying in a one year old isn’t a behavioural issue.

Travel sickness, comfort for them (tall kids) and happiness at being able to see and talk to us. My 2.5 year old is too tall for his age 0-4 rotating car seat already and so forward facing was logically what we needed to buy next anyway. Plus we have the added thing that we need a car seat we can take on holiday and without the guarantee of isofix in things like minibuses had to opt for one we could fit with a seat belt. At this point forward facing options are pretty much the only ones unless you have a fortune to spend.

in addition, I drive a Volvo, its built like a tank with side impact protection and I drive very carefully. I do care about my children’s safety and chose the car partly because of it. As other users have said, there are many layers to road safety.

FF seats are cheaper than the RF till 7y seats
mine all do ERF but they are v expensive seats
also people presume that if it’s for sale it must be safe. And it is legally safe, just not safest.