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Angela Raynor still doesnt get it.

512 replies

ThisDandyWriter · 11/05/2026 08:08

I’ve just read Angela’s Raynor’s statement about why Labour did so badly and what they need to do to change….aibu to think SHE STILL DOESNT GET IT!! Nothing mentioned about welfare, nothing mentioned about immigration-these are 2 subjects most talked about as the reasons why people didn’t vote for Labour.
she might not like it-but id they want to stay in power, they MUST tackle these subjects and not just ignore them because they dint fit her narrative.

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15
Olive123456 · 11/05/2026 13:28

Can't wait for the next GE. It's going to be even better than Brexit.

Mangelwurzelfortea · 11/05/2026 13:20

Itchthescratch · 11/05/2026 13:18

Who knows if they will or won't? I suspect they are the only ones willing to make the pretty radical changes needed to have a chance at stopping the boats but it's obviously a very tough nut to crack as the incentive for many to come to the UK is worth risking their lives for so they aren't going to be easily deterred.

Either way some detention centres will be needed as these centres don't just deal with those who got to the UK using small boats

So it's going to cost the tax payer billions to build these detention centres and Reform won't actually stop the boats?

Sadcafe · 11/05/2026 13:18

Starmer isn t the real problem, it’s the likes of Rayner and her fellow left of centre colleagues who cry foul every time someone tries to do something to cut the cost of welfare, heaven forbid that they deny those on benefits their £20k tax free a year, or try to stop people illegally entering the country. I know many people on benefits genuinely are unable to work and rightfully need help but there are many others who could but don’t because they get more on benefits than they would earn

Itchthescratch · 11/05/2026 13:18

Mangelwurzelfortea · 11/05/2026 13:10

Why would Reform be building the centres though when they'd already have stopped all the small boats, within days of coming to power? Those centres would take months if not years to build. Are they suggesting they WON'T solve the small boats problem then?!

Who knows if they will or won't? I suspect they are the only ones willing to make the pretty radical changes needed to have a chance at stopping the boats but it's obviously a very tough nut to crack as the incentive for many to come to the UK is worth risking their lives for so they aren't going to be easily deterred.

Either way some detention centres will be needed as these centres don't just deal with those who got to the UK using small boats

BananaPeels · 11/05/2026 13:12

Lifeomars · 11/05/2026 13:00

Reform has stated that if they come to power they will build detention camps/centres only in areas that have Green MPs or councils. What is that other than telling people who do not support them that they are going to be singled out for negative treatment. It won't happen of course, the costs which have been estimated at £12 billion will make sure of that let alone the logisitics of planning permission.Will these camps/centres size be proportinate to the Green majority, a narrow one gets a small centre but a large one gets one the size of a jail. Of course none of this has been indicated because it will never happen
But it is the politics of threat and punishment, vote for us otherwise we will do things to you that you may not like.

Are you saying having immigrants in your area would be a punishment?

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 11/05/2026 13:12

Thefastandthecurious5 · 11/05/2026 11:46

Let’s focus on the point: Farage’s proven antisemitism and Reform’s proven track record of using language about taking our country back and using dehumanising language about migrants. This does not minimise the evil of Hitler. It makes Hitler’s evil and Farage’s intentions extremely clear.

So you accept that the comparisons to Hitlers intentions are spurious and a massive reach. That is at least something.

The next step is to understand the difference between unproven allegations and fact. He has not been proven to be anti semitic.

What ‘intentions’ do you think it makes extremely clear?

Can you provide evidence of his intentions to eradicate either Jews or any other racial/religious group?

Olive123456 · 11/05/2026 13:10

They aren't any immigration in the first place.

Mangelwurzelfortea · 11/05/2026 13:10

Itchthescratch · 11/05/2026 13:08

I don't think that's a serious policy but it's interesting that some Green voters are so angry about this. If you are a proponent of open borders then what is the problem? It makes sense in a way, why put the centres in areas that are very against immigration when some areas seem very pro immigration

Why would Reform be building the centres though when they'd already have stopped all the small boats, within days of coming to power? Those centres would take months if not years to build. Are they suggesting they WON'T solve the small boats problem then?!

Itchthescratch · 11/05/2026 13:08

Lifeomars · 11/05/2026 13:00

Reform has stated that if they come to power they will build detention camps/centres only in areas that have Green MPs or councils. What is that other than telling people who do not support them that they are going to be singled out for negative treatment. It won't happen of course, the costs which have been estimated at £12 billion will make sure of that let alone the logisitics of planning permission.Will these camps/centres size be proportinate to the Green majority, a narrow one gets a small centre but a large one gets one the size of a jail. Of course none of this has been indicated because it will never happen
But it is the politics of threat and punishment, vote for us otherwise we will do things to you that you may not like.

I don't think that's a serious policy but it's interesting that some Green voters are so angry about this. If you are a proponent of open borders then what is the problem? It makes sense in a way, why put the centres in areas that are very against immigration when some areas seem very pro immigration

Mangelwurzelfortea · 11/05/2026 13:06

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 11/05/2026 12:58

That’s not the same as PPs defamatory claim though. You just undermine your objections to Reform if you make stuff up.

They would have no qualms about sinking small boats and dinghies and letting people drown and shooting migrants so it probably would act as a strong deterrant. I'm sure that there are loads of Reform voters that would sign up for doing that.

I'm not arsed about 'undermining my objections to Reform' if the bar for their voters is so low that they think what Ben Habib said is fine. Or at all, really. I think there's a good chance we'll be saddled with a Reform government in three years' time, which will be the 2019 Tory government all over again (literally, with the same people apart from Farage instead of Johnson) and just as bloody useless. And the British public will be clamouring to kick out whoever the Reform PM is after just a few months because the current rose-tinted glasses about them 'stopping the boats' will be smashed into tiny pieces. So I'm quite sanguine about the possibility of a Reform government - it will lance the boil.

NoName47 · 11/05/2026 13:06

Reform has stated that if they come to power they will build detention camps/centres only in areas that have Green MPs or councils. What is that other than telling people who do not support them that they are going to be singled out for negative treatment. It won't happen of course, the costs which have been estimated at £12 billion will make sure of that let alone the logisitics of planning permission.Will these camps/centres size be proportinate to the Green majority, a narrow one gets a small centre but a large one gets one the size of a jail. Of course none of this has been indicated because it will never happen
But it is the politics of threat and punishment, vote for us otherwise we will do things to you that you may not like.

What they are saying is if you vote for a party who has an open border policy then surely you should be happy to have the results of that policy i.e. housing for undocumented illegal migrants to be in your constituency. It will never happen anyway but it would be interesting to see if all the middle class socialists who think an open border policy is a good idea would be happy to have all these migrants housed where they live rather than where they will likely end up which is poor working class areas.

Lifeomars · 11/05/2026 13:00

BananaPeels · 11/05/2026 09:37

I find this odd. The left are the definition of fascists. Think and act how we tell you to and anyone who disagrees needs to be cancelled (or worse according to the placards at left wing demonstrations). Whether you agree or disagree with reform, they aren’t suggesting anyone gets cancelled or ostracised for not supporting them. They are simply making their case and you either like it or you don’t. That’s democracy not racism. I find the ANTIFA group the most ironic of all movements! Literally the opposite of what it says on the tin!

Edited

Reform has stated that if they come to power they will build detention camps/centres only in areas that have Green MPs or councils. What is that other than telling people who do not support them that they are going to be singled out for negative treatment. It won't happen of course, the costs which have been estimated at £12 billion will make sure of that let alone the logisitics of planning permission.Will these camps/centres size be proportinate to the Green majority, a narrow one gets a small centre but a large one gets one the size of a jail. Of course none of this has been indicated because it will never happen
But it is the politics of threat and punishment, vote for us otherwise we will do things to you that you may not like.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 11/05/2026 12:58

Mangelwurzelfortea · 11/05/2026 11:12

Defamatory? Well apart from Ben Habib saying people shouldn't be rescued from the Channel. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/24/dont-rescue-people-who-scupper-their-channel-boats-says-reform-uk-deputy

Not to mention all the people who vote Reform who put laughing emojis under every post on social media about migrants drowning in the Channel. A swift Google will find you several thousand of those.

That’s not the same as PPs defamatory claim though. You just undermine your objections to Reform if you make stuff up.

They would have no qualms about sinking small boats and dinghies and letting people drown and shooting migrants so it probably would act as a strong deterrant. I'm sure that there are loads of Reform voters that would sign up for doing that.

Feis123 · 11/05/2026 12:56

BananaPeels · 11/05/2026 12:13

But isn’t the issue the ‘2 cultures’. Until recently that wasn’t a thing. We had one British culture regardless of race. When I was at school, even though my school had children from a variety of backgrounds, we never ever thought we were culturally different. Didn’t even occur to us. We all went to same assembly at school, we all socialised together. No one dressed differently (apart from special occasions - I remember being in awe of my friend’s Saree she wore for an event). There was no side by side living, we all were British. This side by side living has only appeared in the last 30 years.

Edited

Exactly. It is astounding that people don't see it. It is astounding that the so-called educated don't see it, or worse still, they see it and deliberately wish to undo the country.

NoName47 · 11/05/2026 12:54

AmethystDeceiver · 11/05/2026 09:10

Agree. I don't want an anti immigration party, and I don't know anyone who does. People like me count too, we don't need to pander to the lowest common denominator

How lovely for you that you live in diverse areas and everyone gets along really well and you love it. Perhaps consider the other people who aren't quite so lucky and live in areas with gangs on young foreign men who can barely speak English leering (and just that if they are lucky) at their pre-teen and teenage daughters going to and from school. So yes I'm anti unvetted immigration and so are a lot of people I know. It's not about pandering to the lowest common denominator it's just people who have a different view and experience to you. I don't agree with many green party policies including open borders but I don't think everyone who votes for them is wrong I just think they have a different view on what it best for the country. I'm not sure why the courtesy never extends from left wing voters to people who vote for right wing parties.
Btw, I have never voted reform and have no interest in voting for them but the standard response of they are all racists just doesn't make sense and is really simplistic and honestly quite ignorant.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 11/05/2026 12:51

I have to agree with whoever said more or less that she’d be an embarrassment as PM on the world stage. And it’s not, repeat NOT, because she’s working class! John Major was working class, but he knew how to behave

That was me, @GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER, and you couldn't be more correct about her behaviour having nothing to do with being working class - at least not the working class as it was traditionally understood, who were often wedded to the kind of values their supposed betters would have done well to copy

Unfortunately Angela's the product of a very different demographic, and while she's used union backing to claw her way up it'll never hide the underlying beliefs and sympathies

nixon1976 · 11/05/2026 12:51

ThisDandyWriter · 11/05/2026 10:06

And that my dear is why Reform will get in.

calling someone racist when they have given no indication of racism whatsoever is incredibly insulting (and in my case untrue).

and the fact I have never voted reform is irrelevant, because voting fir reform does not necessarily make someone racist.

You used the term 'an illegal.' Not 'an illegal immigrant' (which they aren't, by the way) but 'an illegal.'

Can you not see how that dehumanises people? Are you surprised PPs refer to you as racist when you use language like that?

nixon1976 · 11/05/2026 12:47

OnceUponATimed · 11/05/2026 08:29

Maybe in your bubble that's what people want. In my bubble, they very much have other concerns.
I live in a wonderful diverse area. I love the fact that my kid's friends are all different.Cultures and religions. My life and their life are enriched by our wide variety of people and cultures around us.
I don't want people to come by small boats, not because I care about them coming here.But because I don't want them to risk their lives and to die for this. So I do want them to stop the boats, but not for the same reasons that you do.
More than half of the vote at this election went to more liberal parties (Lib dem, Labour, Green) so actually maybe you're in the wrong.

Well said

anniegun · 11/05/2026 12:43

Not all of us have fallen for the bullshit that it is all the fault of immigrants.

SmashThePatriarchy · 11/05/2026 12:40

ThisDandyWriter · 11/05/2026 08:26

Net immigration is probably down partly to the higher rate tax payers who have fled the country 😂

That wouldn’t be immigration then would it. It would be emigration.

Lingostar · 11/05/2026 12:37

BananaPeels · 11/05/2026 12:24

Yeah me too. I’m British. I am third generation. I don’t speak the language, never even been to when my grandparents were from. It simply is just a footnote in my DNA. Don’t consider that I am in any way associated with that country other than a passing thought when I look at my family tree. That country has nothing to do with me personally so the idea it is my ‘home country’ is stupid

and @chocolateaddictions - apologies, 'home country' was clumsy of me. I was actually thinking of friends who were born elsewhere and moved here (so first generation) and their children (second generation). They have said they would leave if Farage gets in.

They all retain links to these different countries (even if it's not where they would consider 'home', particularly for those in the second generation) and it would be relatively easy to move there if they wanted to.

I was just curious what others who find the idea of Farage in power despicable might plan to do?

SmashThePatriarchy · 11/05/2026 12:36

Overtheatlantic · 11/05/2026 08:15

I’m not sure she’s capable of understanding the wider picture because she is very much a product of her upbringing and circumstances, without the intellectual curiosity to further inform her beliefs. She’s a local politician but not a global leader.

What a patronisingly classist response. A one that always pops up with Rayner. Just because someone doesn’t have a PPR degree from Oxbridge it doesn’t mean they don’t understand wider societal issues.

BananaPeels · 11/05/2026 12:30

Mangelwurzelfortea · 11/05/2026 12:20

So you think the country has stayed exactly the same since Roman times?

There have always been other cultures existing within the UK. Also - we've colonised half the planet as a country so it's a bit rich so start moaning about other cultures existing peacefully within the UK.

And frankly, the globalisation genie ain't going back into the bottle. This was always going to happen when international travel became normalised. If you want to go back to the days of only meeting people who were born within a 20 mile radius and living only on British produced food (turnips, anyone) then we need to get rid of planes, trains and automobiles. But that part of our culture changing isn't something that people seem to want to take on board.

but why does the Uk have to be the only country where this happens? I don’t see people complaining that Japan isn’t changing itself and that it isn’t diverse enough.

BananaPeels · 11/05/2026 12:24

chocolateaddictions · 11/05/2026 12:21

I am second generation and I don’t have another “home country”. This is my home country.

Yeah me too. I’m British. I am third generation. I don’t speak the language, never even been to when my grandparents were from. It simply is just a footnote in my DNA. Don’t consider that I am in any way associated with that country other than a passing thought when I look at my family tree. That country has nothing to do with me personally so the idea it is my ‘home country’ is stupid

chocolateaddictions · 11/05/2026 12:21

Lingostar · 11/05/2026 12:14

Haven't read the whole thread, but is there any view on how many people would willingly opt to leave the UK if Farage becomes the next PM? Various first or second generation friends have told me they would choose to return to their home countries if this happens.

Equally, I wouldn't want to live here under his government. I find Farage and his policies abhorrent. But my whole life is here, my children are here (one will still be at school, one at uni, one graduate) if this happens. Plus, while I have an EU passport, it's not that straightforward for my DH or kids.

I have liberal family in the US who are horrified by Trump and hate every minute of his presidency, but equally - they can't just leave.

What do we think will happen? Will a lot of us be forced into a similar position where we hate it, but just have to get on with it?

I am second generation and I don’t have another “home country”. This is my home country.