Angela Raynor still doesnt get it.

It’s about being a teen mum not her class or background trust me I got pregnant with my first at 15 I come from an ok family middle class and the hate and disgust people had for me for being a teen mum was something else.
That and her speech impediment which she can’t help but people mock her for that too.

Plenty of working class and female politicians who no one really comments on but if you left school pregnant people expect you to be a failure. I’m not even a fan of hers but it’s undeniable she gets mocked for things she currently cannot control

He made money, seemingly he got his millions from somewhere (putting aside his £5m “personal” donation for a minute) from playing with other’s money. That is not a proper job. Remember when the bankers crashed the UK economy at no loss to themselves?

People with proper jobs are noticed if they are absent from work, teachers, fire service, doctors, nurses and administrators who keep systems working.

Angela Rayner

turns out I didn’t successfully add the pic 🙄

Although arguably slightly less healthy, as Nigel Farage was standing fully clothed enjoying his pint and his fag - Angela was looking far less dignified floating around in her vest on a dinghy with her vape.

I don’t understand your point about different standard as that is not what happened here. If Angela was standing around fully clothed with a pint and a fag but got slated for it you might have a point but she didn’t.

I’ll look forward to your Farage thread - if the extent of the gripes that people have with him are the often fictional or creative ones being aired on this thread, it will be a pretty positive one.

83% agree with you OP.

I agree with you, too - emphatically.

Given Reform are offering to revoke the visas of people with Indefinite Leave to Remain and cutting the number of people coming in on student visas, and Rupert Lowe’s crew are discussing revoking the citizenship of British-born black and Asian people, I don’t think that is actually the case at all.

As a side, do you remember Theresa? The Health Sec?!

It's a "compare and contrast" scenario and also an example of the different standards for men. Imagine if Rayner had been pictured with a pint in one hand and a fag in the other. Any woman of any political persuasion would be crucified by the media for this share.google/Hu5AjZwP3E4cjYNgj

However I may take your advice on board and start a thread called "Nigel Farage, a man of the people? Discuss"

never had a proper job in his life

What exactly do you mean by this? I know several people who work as commodity traders now - do they not have proper jobs?

These people worried about their daughters and grand daughters, and yet want to vote Reform who basically don't like women and want to change bills and acts to our detriment. Let's not forget Farage himself thinks Andrew Tate is an important voice for young men.

Make it make sense.

Here you go. I quoted a response to you earlier. I won’t reproduce the whole thing but here’s the bit about gang rapes and raids. Obviously not an exhaustive list but a starting point. I have added in a link to the Brighton gang rape, it was splashed all over the news quite recently. 23rd April. One of them apparently also wanted for murder. The bold bits below are your earlier questions.

Two gang rapes in Bristol, one in Brighton, Leamington Spa in a short timescale.

If you’re referring to gang rapes committed by grooming gangs, these are extremely rare, and the men committing them were British nationals.
No these are not ‘extremely rare’, there are an estimated tens of thousands, likely hundreds of thousands of victims repeatedly raped and abused over years in approx 80 UK towns and cities. And the fact that these men have been given British citizenship does not negate the fact that they are racist and have anti- western ideals.

I’ve not yet seen any reports of terrorist or criminal fugitives entering the U.K. illegally.
Most of the gang rapists I have mentioned came in on the asylum route. The asylum seeker who raped a woman in Hyde Park is a terrorist, I can’t find the article but there were other failed asylum seekers on the run from crimes they committed in Europe who came here on small boats. Just google ‘asylum seeker rape’ and see how many heartbreaking and totally avoidable cases there are where women and girls have had their lives changed forever (or ended) by these men.
Electoral fraud by ‘people with anti-Western views seeking to subvert our democracy’ is a constant threat, as shown by Russia’s increasing attempts to influence our elections, but it’s very well managed.
How is it being well managed if many in power won’t even admit that it’s happening? It’s not just Russia. They seem unbothered that potentially large numbers of Muslims are losing their right to a democratic vote and that postal voting is being abused.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg090pe65vo?app-referrer=deep-link
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gv24w9vr8o?app-referrer=deep-link
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg090pe65vo?app-referrer=deep-link
https://www.cps.gov.uk/west-midlands/news/two-teenagers-sentenced-rape-leamington-spa
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g4x2zyer2o?app-referrer=deep-link (Raped a 12 yr old not gang rape though)

• the definition of asylum seeker needs to be changed also ,it's out dated

@Mangelwurzelfortea many labour MPs supported Brexit.

The wonderful lord frank field , old Mp for Birkenhead supported it because he saw his poorest of the poor constituents further affected in every way by the huge volume of esteem European immigrants who came when Blair changed the workers rights barriers.

I have now made it very clear that my opinion is about the optics of Shabana Mahmood’s policy and I have apologised for being unclear in my previous posts about the policy.

People living here should contribute financially, of course. However, asylum seekers can’t currently work so cannot contribute financially. I think allowing them to work - and thus contribute finanxially - is a much fairer, more dignified policy than taking away their valuables and using that to pay for their expenses. Asylum seekers are not the people causing the benefits bill unaffordability or NHS demand issues, so why suggest that is the case?

I can’t see a mention from you of the Brighton gang rape upthread. This is the first I have heard of the Brighton gang rape, and I can’t find any other gang rape cases in the UK news.

I did say this about murders and rapes committed by foreign nationals:

As for murders and raped committed by foreign nationals, these happen but they’re rare, and most of the time, the people committing them are here legally.

I am not selective about the information I absorb, and I do not have the time or money to read everything in the media. Equally, I’m not lying or misrepresenting to suit my agenda. If this is in reference to my point about Shabana Mahmood’s policies, I stand by what I said.

my immediate thoughts went to the Nazis’ policies of confiscating Jewish people’s jewellery, artwork, houses, teeth and anything else valuable they had (as you write).
Yes, I realise the HO policy and the Nazi policies are VERY different in terms of their aims.

So you read on and understood that was not the proposal but still decided to present it as a parallel to the Nazis regardless. You didn’t include the full context of the proposal to acknowledge the completely different aims, you just presented it as if Shabana was behaving like the Nazis - no mention of ‘optics’ or potential for misinterpretation by the rider public.

If your point was about the optics that you (and some on the left if the party saw) but the rest of us didn’t - you could have said that.

As it was you sought to draw a direct parallel which in my mind is hugely dishonest.

Your previous assertion:
How is it minimising Nazi policies?
And which other countries have said anything - like Shabana Mahmood has - about confiscating asylum seekers’ jewellery when they come to the U.K. (which is horribly similar to the Nazis confiscating the jewellery and money of Jewish people when they were deported to concentration camps)?

Did anyone else here not see a parallel between these policies and the Nazis’ policies?

No. That seems to be an affliction of the left who have a serious aversion to any mention of immigration control, desire to limit numbers or make us less attractive as a destination so that people are less incentivised to travel across a safe continent and get on a small boat in order to get here to this tiny but extremely generous island.

Instead of welcoming people who have fled persecution or been displaced, we’re seizing their assets? It sounds very degrading and undignified.

We can’t afford our current benefits bill and the NHS can’t cope with demand - why do you think that people wanting to live here shouldn’t contribute financially?

I told you about them upthread. Just try searching on the internet and see how long the list of rapes, gang rapes and murders by asylum seekers/immigrants is.

You appear to be very selective on the information you absorb while being happy to lie and misrepresent to suit your agenda.

If anyone is interested, break down of asylum seeker information.
Can see that Labour are trying but the whole system is broken. I can't see how suddenly Reform is the answer.

https://freemovement.org.uk/briefing-the-sorry-state-of-the-uk-asylum-system/#Increase_in_refusals_backlog_clearance

I’m not the first person to have made that link - Zack Polanski (who is Jewish) also made it, as he said this:

"Nazi history and my own family's perilous journey is not something I evoke lightly. To many communities who have been displaced or have fled persecution, the Labour government's statements will have had a chilling effect."

I have explained in my post above that I realise there are very clear and fundamental differences in the two policies.

The thing I find noteworthy - and wanted to check if others also did - is the optics of the HO policy, which ZP also picked upon.

I am not trying to whip up hysteria, and I am a Labour supporter and also have Jewish friends and colleagues.

I don't think any new government could deal with it effectively either - especially not in a year or so, as people seem to expect.

We are drowning in debt and in very uncertain times.

We don't have the money to set up a new service to process the enormous backlog of assylum claims quickly and France are not going to bare the expense of Policing their shores to stop the boats coming. Our hands are tied legally when they arrive.

Do I think Starmer is an effective, communicative leader? No. BUT I don't think any of them would be able to turn it around in a 4 year term either AND I'm glad he's standing up to Trump & Netanyahu, whereas Farage and co would roll right over!

Labour had their own soundbite ‘smash the gangs’ at GE, which some bought in to.

The part about France isn’t correct either.

No it’s immigration as a whole. Illegal immigration is just the “Poster boy” for all immigration.
We need to seriously think about what sort of country we want to live in because at present levels of immigration our country is changing beyond all recognition.
Some people might not think this is a problem but they need to be honest and acknowledge it as a fact nonetheless.

The fact you made that link suggests more about you than the policy itself. It's clear that there are fundamental differences that make the policies completely different, both in terms of motivation and implementation. Trying to draw parallels is at best ill informed and at worst attempting to whip up hysteria by hijacking a genuine human atrocity to make completely unfounded comparisons.

People will always blame immigrants for their woes, nothing new under the sun.

That's why parties like the BNP, UKIP and now Reform/Restore exist.