Angela Raynor still doesnt get it.

We need bread and roses! Also, people are now finding out that the bread offered by Trump is not bread at all - it’s just fake bread.

Then being intereviewed by Sky News and talked about 'nesting' with her ex (from 300 miles away).

She is a shameless liar. And some want her for PM??

Why have you misspelt Angela Rayner's name?

We have the sound bites from hitler now what about these:

Allah’s Messenger said, “The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. ‘O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.’”
(Sahih Bukhari 4:52:177; see also Sahih Bukhari 4:52:176; Sahih Muslim 41:6985)

Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it.
(Sahih Muslim 39:16, see also Sunan Abu Dawud 41:5186)[5]

On his death-bed Allah’s Messenger ( put a sheet over his-face and when he felt hot, he would remove it from his face. When in that state (of putting and removing the sheet) he said, “May Allah’s Curse be on the Jews and the Christians for they build places of worship at the graves of their prophets.” (By that) he intended to warn (the Muslim) from what they (i.e. Jews and Christians) had done. (Sahih Bukhari 4:56:660)[6]

No Muslim would die but Allah would admit in his stead a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire.
(Sahih Muslim 37:6666)[7]
There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with as heavy sins as a mountain, and Allah would forgive them and He would place in their stead the Jews and the Christians.
(Sahir Muslim 37:6668)[8

A group of Bani Isra’il (Jews) was lost. I do not know what happened to it, but I think (that it ‘underwent a process of metamorphosis) and assumed the shape of rats. Don’t you see when the milk of the camel is placed before them, these do not drink and when the milk of goat is placed before them, these do drink.” (Sahih Muslim 42:7135)[11]

I left the Labour Party 30 odd years ago, having been quite active. Mostly because it was always "you must support us, then after the revolution we'll be able to deliver feminism, gay rights, etc". Just too much idealism of big change rather than the pragmatism of continuous small improvements.

It was striking after the US election when journalists were interviewing voters and politicians just how many people were saying “I voted for Trump because if the economy” “I voted for Trump because food is too expensive” “I voted for Trump because we need more jobs” “I voted for Trump because he will reopen factories”. They didn’t love Trump, they were just skint and wanted more money in their pockets. Whereas on the Dem side it was more “We campaigned for LGBTQI+ rights and it’s a disaster that we weren’t listened to ” “They didn’t listen to our message on diversity” “Trump will not do anything to support trans kids” “I don’t understand why women/black people can vote for that man” but they didn’t offer anything useful like jobs and affordable food. When one person offers you bread and the other offers you what they think is roses then you take the bread. Even if it’s just a small chance that the bread will be delivered. Even if you want the roses, and lots of people don’t want those particular roses.
Reform link their “policies” to directly helping the British people. Particularly the working people. I personally think it’s mainly bollocks and we’d mostly be screwed if they did get in but still, the message is “a vote for us is a vote for yourself”. Labour policy is all about supporting someone else “a vote for us is for benefits claimants” “a vote for us means other people never have to make their own kids breakfast again” or “a vote for is is a vote for grooming gangs” “a vote for us means if you don’t work you are better off than any over privileged fat-cat upstart who is arrogant enough to try to run a small business”.

Absolutely. Up the workers. Pigs in the trough. She was bloody Housing Minister and claimed that she was advised incorrectly by some middle of nowhere solicitors. I suspect she knew she was on dodgy ground and thought she would wing it.

For me it wasnt the SD error it was the robbing of her disabled son's trust fund to pay for a property with her latest boyfriend who has been fired by the LP. You really couldnt make this up.

This made me giggle. Did you demand to see the pickpockets legal papers to determine he was an illegal immigrant?

The point of pickpockets tends to be that they secretly pick your pocket not engage in discussion with you. Things that never happened.

I was just going to say the same! I think is partly a sneaky way to undermine her but also a way of saying they don’t care about her.

Reform will get in because Labour will stay principled and not pander to racists? Potentially. So be it then. I’d rather that than a party abandoning their principles and flip flopping to say what some people want to hear.

It would be economically and socially devastating for the country if Reform ever took power (still very unlikely at this point) but I support democracy. It would just make me sad to see the UK sink so low. Maybe we are a country of racists now and I have to learn to live with that.

Its down because the Tories changed the rules on bringing over dependants for people studying. People who didnt work, didnt contribute.

Minor point, but why does every thread started about her misspell her surname in the title?

Also the BBC is neither right or left wing. And they get huge amounts of stick from both sides.

Absolutely agree with this! The BBC don’t always get it right - far from it. But the fact that people of all political stripes constantly argue about the BBC being too far on the opposing side just shows that they’re pretty good at being impartial.

There's two points to this.

The first is on implementation - he's been very successful as Manchester Mayor on many fronts (homelessness, Bee network, education, emissions) so he can point to stuff he's done, and his own political ideas (more devolution) and say 'look - I make things happen'

The second is on messaging. Keir is a good public servant with a good career and (I honestly believe this) good principles. But he's awful at the presentational bits of politics, and modern politics needs good communicators, so picking someone with a bit more charisma and comfort in talking to people would help Labour.

The irony is that immigration reached a peak when Suella Bobblehead and Honest Bob Jenrick were the ministers in charge of immigration under the previous government.

And Farage's Brexit resulted in millions of hard-working Europeans being told to bugger off back where they came from, to be replaced by workers from Nigeria, India, Zimbabwe, Nepal and elsewhere - workers who have been exploited by visa-scammers, gangmasters and unscrupulous employers.

Taking extremely tiny soundbites from Hitler and trying to compare the evils of the Holocaust with Reform is pretty low.

The growing anti semitism in this country is coming from the left - why don’t you do their soundbites first?

Raynor is a fool
She wants a higher minimum wage.
Has she not got her head around the fact that 2 pubs a day are closing and unemployment is rising due to the increase in the minimum wage and higher NI?
Higher minimum wage= fewer jobs= higher unemployment.
Less tax able to fund benefits.

Visa and asylum fraud is not widespread. My mother used to work in visa and asylum policy, and she is at pains to say how uncommon it is.

Yes, the small boat arrivals of people are very visible, but they are not very frequent. A lot of money is spent on accommodating asylum seekers, but most of that money goes to the accommodation providers and only a tiny portion to the asylum seekers themselves (£9.95 a week for those in full board accom or £49 a week for those not in full board accom).

Electoral fraud by ‘people with anti-Western views seeking to subvert our democracy’ is a constant threat, as shown by Russia’s increasing attempts to influence our elections, but it’s very well managed.

I’ve not yet seen any reports of terrorist or criminal fugitives entering the U.K. illegally. Most of them are removed successfully. I’ve not come across any evidence of lawyers successfully arguing for their right to stay in the U.K.

As for murders and raped committed by foreign nationals, these happen but they’re rare, and most of the time, the people committing them are here legally. I’ve never heard of a gang rape being committed in the U.K. by a foreign national. If you’re referring to gang rapes committed by grooming gangs, these are extremely rare, and the men committing them were British nationals.

I disagree that the questions were goading. They were asking you to consider the issue a bit more critically which clearly I overestimated your abilities to do. This thread is living proof that this country is going to distroy itself from within far faster than any illegal immigrants can destroy it.

He wasn't 'supposed to remain impartial' - especially as a freelancer. That was a big part of the whole story, and the main reason he was reinstated. And it wasn't misconduct. Not even close.

Also the BBC is neither right or left wing, despite some spikiness in the distribution of how that presents. I know people there who can confirm, they try very hard as an organisation to be as impartial as possible, and there are many people who spend most of their role worrying about whether they're managing it. And they get huge amounts of stick from both sides.

it's about being anti immigration,.
It's about stopping illegal asylum seekers who are economic migrants.
There are now 200, 000 living here, illegally.

Good. I hope the Labour Party never listen to racists like you. They’re not Reform. They don’t just say what the racists want to hear. They were voted in on a set of principles and they’re acting on them. Good on them and good on Starmer.

Again patronising people isn’t going to make them vote for people on the left. I do understand them. I studied it at university thanks . It’s why I know being right wing in the uk is not fascism and it is a term used to try to force people not to want to control migration, have strict law and order, have a strong military etc which is clearly what people do want as evidenced by these election results. That is just normal, bog standard, right of centre think. Nothing authoritarian about it at all. Lots of people also do not want a super liberal, anything goes society as can ben seen by the pushback on the transgender issue. This what the government don’t get. Most people are generally pretty (small c) conservative.

These two posts perfectly capture the Labour's dilemma, and their willingness to destroy the party and the country on the alter of "socialism at any cost"