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Angela Raynor still doesnt get it.

512 replies

ThisDandyWriter · 11/05/2026 08:08

I’ve just read Angela’s Raynor’s statement about why Labour did so badly and what they need to do to change….aibu to think SHE STILL DOESNT GET IT!! Nothing mentioned about welfare, nothing mentioned about immigration-these are 2 subjects most talked about as the reasons why people didn’t vote for Labour.
she might not like it-but id they want to stay in power, they MUST tackle these subjects and not just ignore them because they dint fit her narrative.

OP posts:
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15
Havanananana · 11/05/2026 11:12

ShizeItsWeegie · 11/05/2026 10:53

No, I don't. Like so much in this over legislated country, it is probably un-solveable but KS lying about it is on a par with Boris Johnson lying, lying and lying some more.

Worse, he must know that he has no power outside of the UK to smash gangs or do anything else but that doesn't stop him running his mouth. It's embarrassing.

Johnson lied - as in denying things that clearly had happened - and he was dishonest about Brexit. Either he never intended to adhere to the terms of the Brexit agreement or he had simply never read it.

Being unable to immediately deliver on a manifesto point is not the same as lying.

Your second point is interesting. If Starmer and Labour have "no power outside of the UK to smash gangs or do anything else [to stop illegal immigration]" doesn't the same logic apply to Farage? His two ex-Tory ministers, Braverman and Jenrick, already know this to be the case as they failed when they were the Home Secretary and Immigration Minister in the previous government. So by your own definition, is Farage lying - or is he just using "immigration" as a way of stirring up dissatisfaction?

ShizeItsWeegie · 11/05/2026 11:12

Happyjoe · 11/05/2026 10:57

Really? Because Starmer has made changes, chipping away at asylum rules and immigration rules, all designed to make the UK less appealing.

There is no simple solution to asylum seekers, you must have the smarts to realise this. It's quite silly to think that anyone can solve this instantly, embarrassing even.

Yes, he should be embarrassed. When we heard him say it, we looked at each other and laughed. I'm a nurse, DH is a cop. We both knew he was fantasizing but he's a barrister FFS.

Mangelwurzelfortea · 11/05/2026 11:12

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 11/05/2026 11:04

Seriously??

‘OP’ did not make that disgusting comment.

You know that the right to free speech does not extend to making up defamatory lies?

Defamatory? Well apart from Ben Habib saying people shouldn't be rescued from the Channel. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/24/dont-rescue-people-who-scupper-their-channel-boats-says-reform-uk-deputy

Not to mention all the people who vote Reform who put laughing emojis under every post on social media about migrants drowning in the Channel. A swift Google will find you several thousand of those.

Don’t rescue people who scupper their Channel boats, says Reform UK deputy

Ben Habib says navy or Border Force should not save people who throw themselves into sea if they have refused other vessels

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/24/dont-rescue-people-who-scupper-their-channel-boats-says-reform-uk-deputy

Itchthescratch · 11/05/2026 11:11

Happyjoe · 11/05/2026 10:54

The Danes pay more tax! Something the UK people are not wanting.

The Danes are significantly richer than us. The UK's GDP per capita is only 60% of the Danish figure. This means they can afford to pay more tax and still take home more money than us (well over $4k a month versus just over $3k a month for UK workers).

It's understandable why the UK population are against paying more tax when their standard of living and purchasing power is already much lower. There is simply less money in the pot in the first place to redistribute through taxes. It's a completely different proposition.

PropertyD · 11/05/2026 11:08

Happyjoe · 11/05/2026 10:29

Labour have done things to tackle immigration, but folk don't think it's enough, they want it stopped completely which is lala land if they think that's good for the UK. Plus, there's some of us who still realise immigration isn't the huge problem in this country that our media bias tells it. They are not responsible for the cost of living, lack of housing, the NHS, schools, potholes, Putin/Trump etc.

Have you ever been to Birmingham, Luton, Bradford?

ProudAmberTurtle · 11/05/2026 11:07

Flowersdie · 11/05/2026 10:02

Good. I hope the Labour Party never listen to racists like you. They’re not Reform. They don’t just say what the racists want to hear. They were voted in on a set of principles and they’re acting on them. Good on them and good on Starmer.

In what way am I racist?

Plugg · 11/05/2026 11:05

Happyjoe · 11/05/2026 11:00

No, they pay more.

Average basic rate pay 42% (20% here) and personal allowance is £5k-ish (£12k here). Highest rates 55-60%, 45% here, with marginal rates of 65%. It’s the basic rate tax payers that need to pay more here.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 11/05/2026 11:04

Mangelwurzelfortea · 11/05/2026 11:00

It sounds like you're trying to silence the OP. Aren't Reform all about free speech?

Seriously??

‘OP’ did not make that disgusting comment.

You know that the right to free speech does not extend to making up defamatory lies?

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 11/05/2026 11:02

Addocorlo · 11/05/2026 10:16

We have the sound bites from hitler now what about these:

Allah’s Messenger said, “The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. ‘O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.’”
(Sahih Bukhari 4:52:177; see also Sahih Bukhari 4:52:176; Sahih Muslim 41:6985)

Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it.
(Sahih Muslim 39:16, see also Sunan Abu Dawud 41:5186)[5]

On his death-bed Allah’s Messenger ( put a sheet over his-face and when he felt hot, he would remove it from his face. When in that state (of putting and removing the sheet) he said, “May Allah’s Curse be on the Jews and the Christians for they build places of worship at the graves of their prophets.” (By that) he intended to warn (the Muslim) from what they (i.e. Jews and Christians) had done. (Sahih Bukhari 4:56:660)[6]

No Muslim would die but Allah would admit in his stead a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire.
(Sahih Muslim 37:6666)[7]
There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with as heavy sins as a mountain, and Allah would forgive them and He would place in their stead the Jews and the Christians.
(Sahir Muslim 37:6668)[8

A group of Bani Isra’il (Jews) was lost. I do not know what happened to it, but I think (that it ‘underwent a process of metamorphosis) and assumed the shape of rats. Don’t you see when the milk of the camel is placed before them, these do not drink and when the milk of goat is placed before them, these do drink.” (Sahih Muslim 42:7135)[11]

Yes, people who live by those values will not be pleasant to share our country either

There is a reason why formerly peaceful and majority Christian Lebanon is now majority Muslim and synonymous with civil war and killing. The Lebanese can see what we are doing to ourselves and warning us how it will go. That’s what Rayner/Starmer need to listen to. It’s a matter of national importance.

Happyjoe · 11/05/2026 11:00

Plugg · 11/05/2026 10:59

The higher rate taxes in Denmark are much the same as here. It’s the basic rate of tax that needs to go up from 20-30% and then the nil rate personal allowance needs to be reduced. Thats how we get to Scandinavian rates of tax.

No, they pay more.

Mangelwurzelfortea · 11/05/2026 11:00

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 11/05/2026 10:58

They would have no qualms about sinking small boats and dinghies and letting people drown and shooting migrants so it probably would act as a strong deterrant. I'm sure that there are loads of Reform voters that would sign up for doing that.

Thats a very serious and potentially defamatory accusation. I hope you have some evidence that the Reform leadership has said that.

It sounds like you're trying to silence the OP. Aren't Reform all about free speech?

Happyjoe · 11/05/2026 11:00

Blondiebeachbabe · 11/05/2026 10:57

She should have been sacked after the tax avoidance. Scandalous that she's creeping back in.

Lol, hope you say the same about Farage and Tice.

StandFirm · 11/05/2026 10:59

Philgooglemail · 11/05/2026 09:43

The rose of reform is terrifying. The county I love is in the process of turning into a very nasty divided place. Influenced by such biased reporting like the Mail and GB News.

Read this article and worry.

Meanwhile. Written by someone called Claudia Karl:
🇩🇪 Speaking as a German.
I grew up in a country where every history lesson, every memorial, every awkward family dinner eventually circles back to the same uncomfortable question: how did ordinary, decent people let it happen? How did a respectable European democracy slide, in barely a decade, into something that ended with six million Jewish lives extinguished, millions of others murdered alongside them, and a continent in ruins?
The answers are never simple. But the rhetoric — the rhetoric was never subtle. And it is the rhetoric I want to talk about, because I have heard this song before. 🚩
A certain Austrian gentleman (you know the one) and his party told their country a very specific story. Listen now to what is coming out of Reform UK and Nigel Farage. Not the policies. Not the personalities. Just the language.
⸻

  1. "The country is broken. The country has lost itself."
Hitler, in his first radio address as Chancellor on 1 February 1933, told Germans they had been blinded by promises, had forgotten the highest values of their past, and — his exact words — that "the misery of our people is terrible". (Source: Facing History archive, Hitler's first radio address) Facing History Nigel Farage on Twitter, December 2022: "Britain is broken." In Blackpool, June 2024, he expanded: nothing works any more, the country is in cultural decline, "we've begun to forget who we are". (Source: ITN/Reuters reporting of Farage's Blackpool speech) Xonenewspage Same key. Different decade. ⸻
  1. "We are being invaded by foreigners."
Hitler, addressing the Reichstag in January 1939, declared "Germany to the Germans" and said the nation must prevent the settlement on its soil of a strange people. (Source: Yad Vashem, transcript of Hitler's Reichstag speech, 30 January 1939) Yad Vashem Reform UK, August 2025, Oxford Airport: Farage said Britain was undergoing "an invasion" and described asylum seekers as a national security threat. April 2026, Reform's own home affairs spokesman Zia Yusuf: a Reform government will "reverse the invasion of Britain". (Source: World Socialist Web Site reporting Farage's Oxford Airport speech; GB News on Reform's deportation plan) World Socialist Web SiteGB News Same key. Different decade. ⸻
  1. "The establishment has betrayed you."
Hitler, at his 1924 trial, called the surrender of 1918 "a stab in the back of the German nation" — Germany, he said, had not really lost; the army had been betrayed by Jews, leftists and the Weimar elites. This single myth, repeated and repeated, did more than perhaps any other to bring him to power. (Source: Alpha History, transcript of Hitler's 1924 trial speech) Alpha History Farage, August 2025, on the grooming gangs scandal: "The establishment has failed". The drumbeat is constant: ordinary Britons have been sold out by Westminster, by the courts, by the police, by an entire metropolitan class. (Source: Wikipedia, "Political positions of Nigel Farage") Wikipedia Same key. Different decade. ⸻
  1. "The country must awaken. We are taking it back."
Hitler at the Berlin Sportspalast, addressing the SA and SS: "Germany has now awakened". The nation, he told them, was the master of its own destiny again. (Source: USHMM Holocaust Encyclopedia film archive) Holocaust Encyclopedia Farage at the Reform conference, 2024 — his line which has since been painted across every Reform rally and bus: "Britain is broken... Britain needs reform". Take our country back. (Source: The Spectator's report on Farage's Reform conference speech) spectator Same key. Different decade. ⸻ I am not saying these men are the same. I am not saying Reform UK is the NSDAP. I am saying — and I cannot be quiet about this, because my country knows what comes next — the speeches are written in the same key. And we know how that key ends. 🇩🇪 Germans know it in our bones. We have spent eighty years apologising. Every schoolchild visits a camp. Every family, sooner or later, has the conversation. Every public building has a plaque. There is no statute of limitations on what our grandparents allowed, and there will not be one in eighty years' time either. So I have to ask, neighbour to neighbour: Have we really learned nothing? 😞 Do British voters truly want to spend the next eighty years apologising the way Germany has had to? Because that is the road. It always starts politely. It starts with "just asking questions" and "concerns about immigration" and a respectable suit and a friendly smile. It never announces itself with jackboots. By the time it does, it is too late. It is much, much easier to say no to this rhetoric now — while it still wears the suit and the smile — than to spend a lifetime explaining it to your grandchildren. 🇩🇪🇬🇧

Yes. And Farage is educated enough to know exactly what he is saying and how he's saying it. This is not a coincidence. The rhetoric overlaps for a reason.

Plugg · 11/05/2026 10:59

Happyjoe · 11/05/2026 10:54

The Danes pay more tax! Something the UK people are not wanting.

The higher rate taxes in Denmark are much the same as here. It’s the basic rate of tax that needs to go up from 20-30% and then the nil rate personal allowance needs to be reduced. Thats how we get to Scandinavian rates of tax.

Mangelwurzelfortea · 11/05/2026 10:59

BananaPeels · 11/05/2026 10:55

Those definitions do not fit modern day society in the slightest. That’s my point. Throwing about these definitions as a way of trying to shame people into not voting how they choose is authoritarian and quite frankly bullying. No one is communist, no one is fascist, very few are racist. Reform are just slightly further right than the Tories. In fact they align more with the Tories on the 1970s and no one was branding about far right Fascist labels in those days. It has to stop.

Edited

Well no because in the 70s it was normal to be openly racist. There were signs on pub doors saying 'no blacks, no Irish.' Times have changed in that sense - for the better. We call out racism now and we didn't back then. And people SHOULD be shamed for being racist, it's shameful.

Happyjoe · 11/05/2026 10:58

Mangelwurzelfortea · 11/05/2026 10:56

Everyone does. The manifestos rarely bear much resemblance to reality. This is partly because parties/leaders don't really know what they're dealing with until they actually come into power though.

Farage is also lying through his yellow smoker's teeth about what Reform would achieve if they got into power.

And Farage is going to ruin the rights, freedoms of the UK people while he's at it, all under the guise of immigration - oh, and of course the NHS! Yay, I can hardly wait.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 11/05/2026 10:58

thepariscrimefiles · 11/05/2026 10:19

Reform probably would reduce illegal immigration as they have no respect for UK and international law so would employ methods that other parties would consider illegal and inhumane. They would have no qualms about sinking small boats and dinghies and letting people drown and shooting migrants so it probably would act as a strong deterrant. I'm sure that there are loads of Reform voters that would sign up for doing that.

They'd be utterly shit at everything else related to running a country though.

They would have no qualms about sinking small boats and dinghies and letting people drown and shooting migrants so it probably would act as a strong deterrant. I'm sure that there are loads of Reform voters that would sign up for doing that.

Thats a very serious and potentially defamatory accusation. I hope you have some evidence that the Reform leadership has said that.

Blondiebeachbabe · 11/05/2026 10:57

She should have been sacked after the tax avoidance. Scandalous that she's creeping back in.

Plugg · 11/05/2026 10:57

ShizeItsWeegie · 11/05/2026 10:49

I have a friend that lives in DK (Brit married to a Dane)

She went to her GP and had carpal tunnel syndrome diagnosed (tentatively) on a Monday. On the Wednesday she got the electrical stimulation diagnostic test and on the Friday she had a call and was offered the surgery the following Tuesday. She has put the surgery off to the start of June for her own reasons.

Last year she found a breast lump and was seen the following day. Two days later she had a mammogram and needle biopsy and had a call the same day to say it was a fluid filled cyst that she could leave or have removed. She arranged to have it removed and this happened three weeks later.

The Danes are doing something right.

Indeed. Nordic society values work. People do all and any work they possibly can to ensure the boost the national tax take and improve public services for all. There’s little ‘oh I’m a bit depressed, I need cash to lie in bed all day’ etc. which is why we’ll struggle ever to have good public services like this here. And they also have an insurance based funding model for healthcare which people here think is appalling. Appalling, getting care in days not years! Terrible!

EasternStandard · 11/05/2026 10:57

ShizeItsWeegie · 11/05/2026 10:53

No, I don't. Like so much in this over legislated country, it is probably un-solveable but KS lying about it is on a par with Boris Johnson lying, lying and lying some more.

Worse, he must know that he has no power outside of the UK to smash gangs or do anything else but that doesn't stop him running his mouth. It's embarrassing.

Yeh he got that wrong. How can you remove all gangs, take one person out another takes their place, impossible.

Happyjoe · 11/05/2026 10:57

ShizeItsWeegie · 11/05/2026 10:53

No, I don't. Like so much in this over legislated country, it is probably un-solveable but KS lying about it is on a par with Boris Johnson lying, lying and lying some more.

Worse, he must know that he has no power outside of the UK to smash gangs or do anything else but that doesn't stop him running his mouth. It's embarrassing.

Really? Because Starmer has made changes, chipping away at asylum rules and immigration rules, all designed to make the UK less appealing.

There is no simple solution to asylum seekers, you must have the smarts to realise this. It's quite silly to think that anyone can solve this instantly, embarrassing even.

Mangelwurzelfortea · 11/05/2026 10:56

ThisDandyWriter · 11/05/2026 10:48

So he shouldn’t have said he would then, should he?

he also said that the vat raised from school fees would find more teachers and that taxes wouldn’t rise.

he lied to get in to power.

Everyone does. The manifestos rarely bear much resemblance to reality. This is partly because parties/leaders don't really know what they're dealing with until they actually come into power though.

Farage is also lying through his yellow smoker's teeth about what Reform would achieve if they got into power.

BananaPeels · 11/05/2026 10:55

Seniie · 11/05/2026 10:30

You can't just create your own definition. You're conflating "fascism" and "authoritarianism". Fascism is far right authoritarianism, communism is far left authoritarianism. Reform are hard right and trying to emulate the MAGA trump regime. They are fascists (although currently trying hard to pretend they are not).

I am not actually a labour voter. I'm centrist in my views. I've only ever voted conservative or lib dem. But the prospect of reform getting in is terrifying to most normal and sensible people in the UK. Labour are making a mistake if they think moving further left will help. People want welfare reform, they want a tougher approach to illegal immigration and they want a sensible and fair approach to taxation. It's what most reform voters say they want but its also what most centrist voters want (done in a sensible and controlled way).

Not all reform voters are racist. But most racists vote reform.

Edited

Those definitions do not fit modern day society in the slightest. That’s my point. Throwing about these definitions as a way of trying to shame people into not voting how they choose is authoritarian and quite frankly bullying. No one is communist, no one is fascist, very few are racist. Reform are just slightly further right than the Tories. In fact they align more with the Tories on the 1970s and no one was branding about far right Fascist labels in those days. It has to stop.

Happyjoe · 11/05/2026 10:54

ShizeItsWeegie · 11/05/2026 10:49

I have a friend that lives in DK (Brit married to a Dane)

She went to her GP and had carpal tunnel syndrome diagnosed (tentatively) on a Monday. On the Wednesday she got the electrical stimulation diagnostic test and on the Friday she had a call and was offered the surgery the following Tuesday. She has put the surgery off to the start of June for her own reasons.

Last year she found a breast lump and was seen the following day. Two days later she had a mammogram and needle biopsy and had a call the same day to say it was a fluid filled cyst that she could leave or have removed. She arranged to have it removed and this happened three weeks later.

The Danes are doing something right.

The Danes pay more tax! Something the UK people are not wanting.

ShizeItsWeegie · 11/05/2026 10:53

Happyjoe · 11/05/2026 10:39

Do you really truly expect Labour to stop the folk on a boat in 2 years when nobody else has managed to even make a dent? While trying to undo the damage in the UK left by the cons and facing wars? OK.

If it were that easy, would've been done a long time ago.

No, I don't. Like so much in this over legislated country, it is probably un-solveable but KS lying about it is on a par with Boris Johnson lying, lying and lying some more.

Worse, he must know that he has no power outside of the UK to smash gangs or do anything else but that doesn't stop him running his mouth. It's embarrassing.

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