Is a more left Labour government what people want?

We've had months of polling, across many polls, Reform have gone from around 35% to 25% and the Tories from 23% to 18%...

The state has supported us in times of need for the last 80 years and provided high quality public services until Osborne embarked on his campaign of slash and burn in 2010.

Attlee’s government managed to create the welfare state, build thousands of council houses and give us the NHS when the country was economically on its knees and in hock to the US. The difference was society then had a common goal.

Its certainly true that the right wing don't give a fuck about the country, all they care about is their own pathetic tribal politics.

On "enjoy" well, whatever happens today, i will go to bed knowing that Reform (let alone the Tories) are still several years away from any possible chance of Govt.

& that really does fill me with happiness 😀

Well no, about 50% of the country didn't vote so we don't know their preference

It’s going to be a great day - a beautiful one, in fact.

I hope you enjoy it as much as I will.

Ummmm what popularity? Badenoch out performs him on "Who would make UKs best PM"
Even Starmer was close.

Reform are on 25% of the vote.... 75% of the country hate him.

They've hardly been pro-welfare. They made a very serious attempt to remove or reduce disability benefits from some of the most seriously disabled people without seeming to understand the system - hence why it failed. I think they'd bought their own bullshit that PIP was being given out to people with mild conditions and when MPs were inundated with stories of quite seriously disabled people who stood to lose all or most of their incomes due to the proposed changes it quickly became totally untenable. They've cut disability benefits for new claimants on UC by a not inconsiderable amount which will leave some disabled people destitute. Many already are. I think that's one of the reasons they've lost a lot of support. Disability is quite evenly spread throughout society and anyone with a disabled person in their family have seen what harm their proposed policies would have done. I have stopped voting labour because of their approach and multiple others I know with disabilities have also switched to other parties.

Cause and effect, I suggest.

Had this government not been so overtly pro-welfare and immigration, and high tax - Reform would never have secured the support they have.

People are sick of being taxed to death whilst being kicked and call racist.
The left brought this upon themselves.

With fewer workers and a large elderly population we certainly need to be reducing the state not expanding it. In the past people turned to family and community for help. Now they turn to the state first for help. It’s simply not affordable any more.

It's not as simple as left/right imo.

I think there is a significant constituency that wants some old fashioned leftism, and they tend to be mildly socially conservative, locally focused, eurosceptic, want immigration reduced, and good education and health care, and good local jobs.

They aren't keen on identity politics.

The modern left and modern far left are not that. Angela Raynor may think going farther on social welfare and equity programs mean they will be "more left" but that is pretty debatable and won't win them back their old voting base.

Yep. They feel impossible in most G7 countries

Basically, people are expecting more and more from the govt, with fewer people funding it. There is a game of economic pass the parcel going on in the background which, at some point in the next 10-30 years will come to a shuddering stop, and someone will be left holding the parcel of crap.

Over the past 30 years the govt has had a bigger and bigger role in people’s lives, through the massive expansion of state funded jobs and the increase in benefits and the triple lock. This is funded by increasing numbers of immigrants coming in. The expectation that the govt will step in and fix problems is actually a pretty new thing. I’m not saying this is bad - but it’s paid for by the taxpayer, which is fine all the time there are more taxpayers than tax takers.

However, this is teetering on a knife edge. If nothing changes, at some point, the whole system will come crashing down and there will have to be a sudden cut off of a significant amount of benefits and/or loss of state funded jobs. Would be better to start tapering down now but they won’t. Because whoever starts doing this will be very unpopular.

I don’t blame pensioners. I want us to keep having a decent state pension. That’s why it’s so important we have enough workers to support the retired. There are only two ways really - more babies or immigration.

People want secure borders, safe streets and well-funded schools and hospitals. They also want work to pay and a pay cheque to cover the bills and a few treats.

None of these things should feel like unimaginable luxury. Increasingly they feel impossible.

Definitely not.

The left has cannibalised itself with nutbag policies and welcomed in vile people like Polanski and Rayner who think they’re morally superior and want to tell us what to do.

The left may have a chance if it brings in solid people with policies that are reasonable like regulated immigration and making work pay with good opportunities. Talking about wars that have nothing to do with us and blokes in skirts is only part of what destroyed the left.

But as I look over to the right, it’s not exactly a pretty site either. They’re just less deranged than the loony left.

The electorate have voted pretty much how they voted in the council elections last year, except Reform's vote share went down. Look it up.

France and Germanys rates are higher than the UKs, so it’s doable - but then they invest in their public services, not cut them to the bone, or sell them off, and they’re still in the EU. EDF Energy is owned by the French government - making profit to pass on to the French consumer from us UK mugs paying through the nose thanks to the tories and their love of privatisation. Farage and his ilk would be even worse.

But they want us to believe immigrants and people on benefits are the problem.

Yes they did it before we left.

We didn't do it when we were in the EU though did we? Ireland has consistently lower corporation tax rates than the UK even when we were part of it. We've only been out of the EU for the last few years - what about the couple of decades beforehand when we were in it during which other EU countries were lowering corporation tax rates to attract multinational firms? There's absolutely no proof that we'd reduce corporation tax rates if we were still in the EU.

And how does Ireland manage that? Not in small part by being in the European Union. Another thing taken from us by the stop the boats brigade.

We also need to be VERY careful re the City of London financial services firms, stock market, banks, etc., lots of which could very easily be relocated to another country/(ries). There's not many reasons why they "have to" be located in London or the UK anymore. There already seems to be a "drain" of multinational firms moving to be listed on stock markets in other countries. Lots of the financial services firms have also "offshored" some of their activities to be done in other countries rather than in the UK. We've already lost a huge amount of our manufacturing industry "blue collar" work over the past few decades to "low wage" Eastern economies and now the "white collar" stuff is leaving our shores too! Add in AI and you have to wonder why international firms would choose the UK to do business in when they could get it done far cheaper in other countries (and aided by AI too to help with language barriers etc).

Do you not think poverty is expensive? Do you think the two child benefit cap was actually put into place to save money and not as an ideological policy by a government committed to smashing the last vestiges of the post war settlement?

Forgive me but that is extremely naive.

If we tax big business more, they will just go abroad, such as Google moving much of their operations to Ireland. 10% of a lot is worth much more than 40% of zero!

@Clarabell77

If that money was so easy to get from corporations etc, don't you think every government would have done it already.
No, I don’t, because it would impact their profits which would reduce the bonuses and investments return for their friends/family/donors/voters - they’d much rather skim it off poor people who are worth much less to them, like those who were hit by the two-child cap.

It's well known that the multi-nationals CHOOSE to base themselves in "low tax" countries, hence why so many have Head Offices/European Head Offices in Ireland.

If we increase corporation tax further (it's already been increased relatively recently), then more international firms will move offshore to other jurisdictions and not only will we lose their corporation tax, their UK based staff will either relocate or be made redundant, increasing UK unemployment, increasing number of economically inactive people and reduce tax/NIC revenue on their "lost" wages.
Not just head offices either - same applies to factories etc - if we continue to make it harder and more expensive for multi national firms to make things in the UK, they'll simply stop doing it in the long term and make stuff in other countries instead.

Many of us can't afford more children so we don't have them.

And many people at one point perhaps can afford children then become sick, are made redundant or their partners die on them so then find themselves in the unfortunate position of not being able to afford them. What, in your humble opinion, should we as a country do for people in that predicament, where it’s not quite as black and white as your scenario.

If that money was so easy to get from corporations etc, don't you think every government would have done it already.

No, I don’t, because it would impact their profits which would reduce the bonuses and investments return for their friends/family/donors/voters - they’d much rather skim it off poor people who are worth much less to them, like those who were hit by the two-child cap.