Is a more left Labour government what people want?

So hard to answer, OP, because it's a simple question about a very complex situation.

How many people know what 'left wing' means? Or right wing? Most people don't think broadly or coherently about politics - they just want simple answers.

I'm interested in politics, but have never found a single political party which chimes with my views. But I do know that, in the current crisis, governments are going to be desperately looking for more funds...and the one sure source of that is the hard-working, law-abiding, squeezed middle (not just mc people - wc too - all the people who work and pay their taxes). The super rich will just leave or get tax lawyers to find loopholes for them - and there are comparatively few of them anyway - they are not the answer to the funding issue.

That's what scares me. But I don't know how much more squeezing this sector can take before they start to protest.

I broadly support Keir Starmer but I wish to God he would speak directly to the electorate and say that he understands their concerns. And also explain that there IS no simple solution to the 'small boat' problem. If there was, it would have been implemented by now.

Nail on the head. Unfortunately there is too much of a risk of a discrimination claim if you take on (or don't take on) someone who has a protected characteristic. There've been quite a few cases where people have successfully claimed for an "ism" within the first 2 years of employment (or even at recruitment stage) and it frightens small employers and potential first time employers. Whether it's an irrational fright is a different matter, but as with lots of things it's "behaviour" that matters and it's a fact that lots of small businesses don't want to take the risk and hence stay small and don't grow.

I completely agree. I feel like I could’ve written your post (apart from the bit about being a lifelong Labour voter, as I’ve flipped between them and the Lib Dems, either voting LD as a protest vote or because of their opposition to Brexit).

As you’re a lifelong Labour voter, I’d be really keen to see how you manage your disappointment when they don’t meet your expectations? So far, I’ve responded to that by voting Lib Dem, but I think that’s unfair of me.

Labour will never be able to out-left the Greens because the Greens aren't interested in actually getting into power.

Rubbish! Unless you’re breaking equality rules, you can dismiss for no reason right up to 2 years of employment. How is that not enough time to decide if someone is any good at their job?

It's not about far left/soft left etc., it's about basic competence and having a realistic plan for economic growth, which Starmer and some of his cabinet simply aren't capable of.

>Is a more left Labour government what people want?

Clearly not, judging by Thursday's results.

The view among some on the left of the party is that by abandoning their left wing principles and trying to become more appealing to centrists and right-leaning folk, the party is haemorrhaging support on the left (to the Greens in England and PC in Wales).

The issue is of course that the effort to appeal to the right is simply not working, and will never work. Labour could reduce net immigration to zero (they are well on the way) and people would simply not believe it.

And the policies aimed at the poorest, while laudable, are not great for garnering support. The poor, by and large, don’t vote and traditional Labour voters resent seeing what many of them see as the feckless poor getting support that they are not entitled to while they face increasing prices and static wages.

Lifelong Labour voter here. I don't envisage that changing UNLESS they veered very far to the left! I'm fine with the pragmatic, soft-left stance that this administration take on many things. I don't think Labour would be electable if they went too far to the left, but obviously they're losing support, not to mention some of the parliamentary party, if they stay put.

I mean, none of this shit is new, is it?? It's been the dance for the party since forever!

I think dancing to the tune that the parties at the extreme ends of the political spectrum are dictating is a mistake, long-term. The Greens and Your Party (if that's even still a thing) are trying to pull leftwing politics further left; parties like Reform and their clones are pulling the Tories further right. Both Labour and the Tories are scared of losing core voters to further left and right. But if those two parties move further to the extremes of the spectrum we are left with a massive gaping void in the middle. Most people DON'T want to vote for one extreme or the other! (or for the Lib Dems apart from tactically...)

I have to say that on a personal, emotional level, I'm really sad about this Labour administration. I thought Starmer was our chance at a pragmatic, sensible and above all intelligent leadership and politics that would change things for the better while not shafting the economy or treating it like a bad smell. He seems, still, like a good person but turns out he's not a great politician and it looks like he's got a fatal stubborn streak. It has to be vanity, clinging on like this. It's not good for either his party or the country.

What’s clueless about it?

Do tell.

Another clueless post. When are people going to wise up?

There was also a lot of tactical voting going on to keep Reform out. Not voting for a party doesn't necessarily mean you hate them.

Yes, but the welfare state used to look very different. It was a basic amount of money, not really enough to live on.

My mum grew up in the 50's and 60's with a single mum with 5 children afterher Dad died when she was young, living in a 2 bed council house - my mum and her sisters shared the larger bedroom with their mum, her 2 brothers shared the smaller bedroom. They thought they were very lucky, whereas now people would be saying they were overcrowded and asking for a 4 bed. The benefits payment was minimal, definitely not enough to live on, and my Grandma cleaned others houses, took in washing etc, grew veg in their garden to put food on the table. The benefits was seen as a top up, not a total anount to live on, and a short term backstop, not a long term solution. Once youngest was in school it stopped completely.

Now it's expected to cover tvs and mobile phones and cars and holidays. The expectations of today's welfare state are very different to when it first originated. In 2026 the income tax and NI revenue will be less than the benefits bill. Leaving the smaller forms of tax such as VAT etc to cover everything else from education to healththcare to policing to our armed forces. It's untenable, and I don't know what the solution is.

In what way is this government “pro-immigration” ?

Compared to the Conservatives they’ve massively reduced immigration and the asylum backlog.

One thing we can agree on @Alexandra2001 is that we would both like to see PR.

Without that, governments always get voted in with a relatively small percentage of the total vote.

I ve no idea but Farage, as said by a pp is a highly divisive figure and in my original post, i said "Him" not Reform.... who are still a 1 man band party or rather a ltd Company!

You must admit, that the next UK Govt voted in on around 25% of the vote is not going to be a good thing.

With 5 choices, instead of the usual 2, we desparately need a form of PR or we are going to continue to be "ungovernable"

Though might be 4 the way the media are attacking the Greens.....

A great deal of voters who don't support the Greens, do so, not because of Polanski per se but on policy, he atm doesn't attract the vitriol Farage gets.... no £5m required for his security!

Yes Farage is marmite, I agree.

I was making a specific point about another poster extrapolating wildly that all the population that didn’t actively vote Reform must hate them, or hate Farage.

Polanski is also marmite and got a smaller share of the vote but they won’t say the same about the Green Party, that everyone hates them who didn’t vote Green.

It's a fair objection but, anecdotally, you've got to admit that Farage is more sharply divisive and "marmite" in peoples' perceptions than most leaders. Only a small percentage voted for the lib dems: that's not because the rest hate Ed Davey, it's just because they don't know who he is 😃

Sure, it's an exaggeration to say that everybody who doesn't vote reform hates Farage. But there's a nugget of truth behind it: he's made his name by appealing very strongly to a certain part of the electorate and not caring about how he's perceived by the other part. In fact you could even say the antipathy of the other part is part of the appeal. Every time woke lefties start fuming about how much they hate him, it actively encourages those who support Reform out of "protest" and makes them double down.

You could say much the same about Thatcher, or Corbyn. Whereas a lot of other leaders appeal by being broadly acceptable, rather than enthusiastically appealling, across a wider base. Which is what Starmer's tried to do, although he's failed.

The point of the comment you replied to being, I think, that we need to consider a bit more closely the big media and social media story about Reform galloping ahead and taking over the hearts and minds of the country. At 35% in the polls it did look like they might do that. At 25% not so much. And whereas Starmer got into power because a lot of those who didn't particularly like him at least considered him better than the alternatives, most of those who don't like Farage would more likely vote for anyone else to keep him out.

I don’t defend him, I would never vote Reform.

But it’s misinformation to say that 75% of the public hate Reform. I asked you before but you declined to answer, what percentage of the population hate the Green party, based on your logic that it’s everyone who didn’t vote Green at the local elections?

I’m not a fan of austerity and I’d love us to spend more on public services…but globalisation means that anyone (business or personal) with money that doesn’t want to pay for the welfare of others can just leave. This is why itsmore difficult for any government

And the cost of welfare is going up and up primary due to state pensions and people living longer

Labour going left will be disastrous, to spend more they will have to -

1 ask for more tax and be vilified for it by the right wing press and hated even more by most people

2 borrow more - higher interest payments, markets will panic, another liz trust moment, higher interest rates for government, mortgage holders, businesses, economy falls off the edge

Theres no easy answers for any government

Recent polling show just 25% have a favourable view of Farage, against 62% who dislike him.

So perhaps 75% was a little high but still in the ball park.

He is an extremely divisive figure but i'm surprised you defend him, given his views.

So ridiculously biased.

You could say that about all the parties - only a small percentage voted for them (smaller than reform) - so the rest must "hate them".

It's a stupid argument though. You have no way of knowing who they hate and most of the country didn't even vote at the local elections.

the hard left is for those wealthy enough to enjoy luxury beliefs. And students.

Do you know how polling works?

But it's still not 75% of the country. I didn't vote as my council wasn't up for election nor have I voted in a poll so my vote for either Tory or Reform is in the missing around 50%