AIBU to stay in the UK rather than move back to Switzerland?

One of my sisters is living in Switzerland. Told her about this thread. She says she doesn't find it insular nor feels stared at

I wouldnt agree that it was derailed. You talked about living in the UK versus Switzerland.

People then came on to write about which of the countries is a "friendlier, more acepting" country. I replied to the poster that first wrote about this on here

I agree. To say that I was "unlucky" was not the correct thing to write. There is a huge amount of racism in the UK. Many news stories will tell you that.

The OP, as a person from Switzerland, is not going to be a target of the same amount of abuse. Switzerland is perceived to be a rich country.

It is only usually the people who are seen to be from poorer countries, that receive the abuse in the UK.

There is a huge amount of racism and xenophobia in England. I would say that it is mainly targeted at Asians, Africans, Eastern Europeans, Irish, and at the descendants of people from those countries.

I'm not having a go at you, it's great that you're defending multicultural values in the UK as someone who has experienced what it's like to grow up in a completely insular society, but what you misunderstand is that those multicultural values are not 'innate' to British friendliness. They have come out of decades and decades of anti-racist struggles linked to a long history of immigration to the UK, which in turn is linked to British colonial history ("we are here because you were there"). I'm also proud of growing up in a multicultural city in the UK, but am aware that the values that were fought for since the 1970s are under increasing attack, so to assume that British friendliness overrides it all is very naive (I'm not doing down British friendliness but of course it's not inherently anti-racist - I was born in the 70s and old enough to remember the signs on pubs saying no blacks, no dogs, no Irish).

Also, you personalised your response to someone who has experienced anti-immigrant abuse as "I think you have been really unlucky there to be honest", which is lacking basic awareness. There is clearly rising anti-immigrant sentiment in the UK on a massive and frightening scale and so this person you were responding to was not "unlucky" but rather you haven't experienced this rising trend as a Western European white person. You can enjoy living in a racially diverse and inclusive society but part of this is acknowledging that your experience is not the same as others. You should not have implied this person was "unlucky", or even worse (in a previous post) that perhaps they weren't being friendly enough themselves, which suggests - deliberately or not - that they somehow deserved the abuse.

That all said, your perspective on UK multicultural values as a Swiss person is important - you should respond to the people who tell you go back to Switzerland exactly why you don't want to. Funnily enough, I literally came back from Geneva yesterday, which is why this post caught my eye. It was beautiful but I'd never live there, and you'd be mad to uproot your happy, carefree life. You might even want to get involved in defending the values you care so much about.

I did the Switzerland to UK move. The small alpine valleys are just as insular as you remember and now everything is expensive as fuck. Does your DH have Swiss citizenship as well? If not, he’ll need to pass a certain level of language exam to be resident (French in Geneva canton; I think German or French in Zurich canton; often German in the type of the valley cantons you’re talking about), to even be employed under the Swiss system, he’ll need to be fluent in one of the four official languages (English isn’t one, which I’m sure you know), and a Swiss citizen himself as any job he applies for, the law is that citizens get preference. Unless a company is willing to employ him directly with a specialized job description. If you can survive Swiss prices on your salary alone, and your children and husband are multi-lingual already, it’s a good move. Otherwise, it’ll be messy as fuck.

Same with Germany. I mean totally one thing living in Berlin or Munich vs living in a small South German town. If you are moving from London or Manchester or even Liverpool or Newcastle you are going to have to pick a city that suits you.
I have some friends who moved back to Warsaw and love it, but no way would they have been able to settle somewhere rural in Poland. Best to stick to cities with significant universities.

My brother moved to Zurich and loves it there. If you did ever move back I reckon Geneva or Basel but definitely not some alpine village! I think both Geneva and Basel are more liberal and international now. Also aren’t unis largely almost free in Switzerland? So your DS could go later or even for a Masters.
Can totally see how Manchester to alpine village would not work!

I find it so odd when people have strong opinions on where you should live. It is not unique to brits, it is all over europe of you're considered to be somewhere "nice". People have tons of reasosn to move and there are pros and cons to every place and it is all very personal where you "fit". If you're happy I the UK, that's great! I doubt Swizerland is going anywhere so if you start feeling some sick.

My fave was this Romanian woman I met. She didn't really feel like Romania was for her. She read about different european countries and decided on finland. She hates loudness, constant kissing and hugging and later dinners so figured Finland would be a better fit and loves it there. Sometimes your home country is not for you.

Maybe if someone wants to offer theit opinion you can say "oh, wasn't expecting you to tell me to go back to where I came from". 😃

Thank you! There is a huge amount of racism and xenophobia in the UK.

I want to leave the UK because of it. I like a lot of things about the UK: the nature, the beauty.

But the racism and xenophobia here is too much. Not all English people are like this, it goes without saying. But the ones that do it, are very cruel

One thing that I noticed recently. My workplace plays games on team bonding days. We have played a version of ,'the traitors game' (from the tv show) 5 times. There are good and bad people in the game, and you have to guess who the bad people are.

Every single time that we played it, the English people in my workplace voted off all of the non - english people first - for looking suspicious. Every single time, of the five times.
Every time, white English people were the last people remaining in the game.

This was pointed out about the UK traitors show that was on TV aswell. It was pointed out that they often vote out the black people first. For no reason

People just say stuff to make conversation.

You have a 12 year old. It would be terrible for his schooling to move. Another 5 years and he's off to uni. Although uni years are expensive so that's another 3 years you can't risk your jobs by relocating. Then you can do whatever you want.

I'm also from another country and on paper yes, I could have a much better standard of living there. But I've been in the UK 15 years, I like it here, moving back would mean starting from scratch and I can’t be arsed.

@BunnyLake ”Of course there is racism in every country”

Not least of all, Switzerland!

If you're happy in the uk, both have good jobs and your son is happy and established then don't move! People are hugely disillusioned with the uk at the moment due to a, the media, and b, the horrendous cost of living.

But for you personally, life sounds like it wouod be worse in Switzerland?

Keep it as a potential option if anything changes, and somewhere lovely to go on hol.

But - I am envious you have that option! Lucky you. 🙂

A very rational outlook. Of course there is racism in every country, some a heck of a lot worse than here. OP’s thread has become a bit hijacked when all she meant was she has found British people to be, on the whole, kind and friendly.

It’s not OP’s fault or responsibility if others have had a different experience.

Have you noticed the election results? What does massive uptick in support for Reform party mean to you? I’m afraid your sheltered monocultural upbringing has made you completely oblivious to issues of racism - and the massive difference to your experience as a Western European white person in UK, and frankly anyone else atm, especially outside of the big cities in the UK.

Why do so many people from other countries live and work here if we are such intolerant scumbags! Look how far back our diversity goes! Americans don't even understand why we are diverse but we are because we've embraced it! Your refusal to be tolerant to any British men and women is the issue!

My partner and I went to Seville recently, and yes we felt some anti tourist sentiment, we on a few occasions had to get up and walk out of places where they just weren't interested in serving us or acknowledging us, we had a homeless woman in a park start screaming at is and hurl a bottle of pop at us. But we didn't turn against the Spanish because the vast majority were perfectly fine but you would have hated the entire race for it. If you really don't like Brits, then why are you here?

The trouble is you are coming across as vehemently anti-British. You are criticising an entire race of people based on a couple of interactions that you've had! We all.know there's some arseholes in the country but you don't push the idea that everybody born here is shit because that is a form of racism isn't it! I spent many years working in the railway infrastructure industry and a few in the steel industry and that involved working with many people from different parts of the planet and nobody was unfriendly with anybody! It was a great atmosphere! Again i'm in the North. You've developed this generalised hate based on two encounters! Does this make you unpleasant towards British people because you are certainly giving us a hard time on here and people are going to struggle to be friendly with you if you are making it clear that you don't like them in the same way you are on here!

In terms of taking jobs, there is an element of truth, when i was made redundant from the steel industry in 2024 and was trying to get safety and compliance roles in the local factories it was soul destroying because these places have become almost exclusively Eastern European and it feels like if you are British, you struggle to be accepted for a role. I can understand how that can soul destroy low skilled locals who can't even get a job on the process lines to pay bills because it's all Eastern Europeans and the interviews are done by Eastern Europeans. I love Eastern Europe and I love travelling around it and meeting the people and I would like to live there somewhere when I retire but at times I've definitely felt like I'm competing with men and women from that part of the world for health and safety work in some industrial settings.

Based on what you've written, you have no reason to move back. Don't overthink it based on what other people say. You know your own mind.

A lot depends on where you are in the UK. IMO you'll find 'Northerners' tend to be far friendlier than 'Southerners' and I'm a brit, a Southerner to boot. That said I've actually spent most of my life living in various countries overseas Italy, Belgium, Singapore, UAE, USA and once out of the expat bubble haven't found it any easier to make friends integrate with the locals than it is with Brits.

OP,
Having travelled widely and lived for years as an adult in Belgium, France and two parts of Germany, after having
grown up in London in UK (and having been a student in Manchester) I think you are spot on about being concerned about the narrow mindedness in small villages in Switzerland (and other rich European countries like Germany) which I have experienced as well.

It's not nastiness but you will find yourself feeling very different to them. I noticed they tend to be quite rigid and complain when everything isn't done by the "rules".

It's a major thing and would probably be very hard to deal with. I live in a very multicultural European city and I cannot imagine being happy in some picture-perfect isolated small village.

People who say that you should go back to Switzerland are thinking about the wealth and "clean" image it has. They have not experienced life there I suspect.

I remember hearing that during the breakdown of the Soviet Union many educated Russians decided not to go back to the Russian countryside despite the fact there was more food available because they needed the intellectual and social stimulation they would get from the city life, even an impoverished one. I think it's the same idea.

Every country has its own problems and many people think that the country that they are in has the worst problems.

To me it sounds like you have built a happy life here and should stay. You have no way of knowing if you and your family would be happier over there. Personally I would be ignoring everyone questioning you as to whether Switzerland would be better or not.

By comparison. Cast your gaze wider.

I get that all the time from English people. I think England is great, but get asked, ‘if you’re from X, what are you doing living in this shithole?’

And I talk about my career and university life and freedom of expression and science and the vibrancy and historical buildings and archaeology and culture and landscapes and music and humour … but I visit the home country when I can because it’s a jewel in many ways. But my DC are most definitely English!

It raises the issue though of language expectations, requirements and fluency in respect of your husband. Will he be able to settle, legally and culturally? Is he fluent in one of the languages spoken in Switzerland?