To think that there are no well paid family friendly careers?

Mumsnet is INSANE. Iv not read the whole thread but what I have read has got me 😯. A 30k job isnt worth the hassle, just wow. Im a single mam and have worked my way up from a dinner lady when my children were small to a teacher on just over 30k. Im burnt out most days, have little to nothing left in the tank energy wise at the end of the day but was quite proud of the fact iv worked my way up. If only I had a high earning husband to fall back on, or even a low earning husband tbf. Yes I do want out of education, yes I do know I can do other things but bizarrely nothing I have found pays as good as my current job.

I agree. Also I think ppl have different definitions of well paid. C suite roles for example are totally not flexible but are very well paid. In your situation I would look for something that you can build up over time, your find interesting and can be self employed or consultant based.
When we started our family it was clear that DH job was 1 less flexible than mine and 2 his earning potential was much much higher. So his job got priority. But that has also meant he has lost out on family time. It’s always a balance and it’s difficult to get it right.

What do you mean by "family friendly" exactly?

If that means, you want to do all school drop offs, pick ups, events like assemblies or sports days, work from home, not work during the holidays and don't expect to has any paid for child care, then no. There are unlikely to be any well paid careers that facilitate that.

Well paid usually means responsible for something either serious or lucrative.
That is unlikely to be compatible with you work just four days a week and taking 14 weeks off a year on holiday.

If you are experienced and in demand then you get more flexibility. I work in a niche bit of finance and our directors on 250k+ do a couple of school picks up and a couple of drop offs per week and WFH 2 days a week. They have nannies and after school clubs who cover the other days and holidays and spouses who also do a share.
If there is a special assembly they want to go to or sports day, they just manage their own diary to allow them to go to it.
I can do the same as a non director level but also niche role person.

But then they also work at home after the kids have gone to bed until late, catch up on Sunday morning when the kids are playing football, join important meetings remotely while on holiday because otherwise we aren't quorate etc.

Flexibility works both ways at a senior and well paid level - they have responsibilities that they need to discharge and can't be handed off to other people. They need to flex to make that work as well. "We failed to discharge our legal duties to investors because our directors were not available because it's the summer holidays" would not go down well.

Family friendly well paid careers don't mean never using childcare or missing some school events. If you are a senior civil servant and the minister requires a briefing on your policy area on the same day of the year 2 sports day, you will be briefing the minister (if you have any sense anyway)

As an aside, PR and marketing is being absolutely massacred by AI so you have little leverage to demand bespoke set up if you find one of the few jobs out there.

Tbh, I'd suggest retraining as a carpenter, or decorator or plumber.

By the time you've re-trained into a new profession, you won't have young children anymore - and you may well have to do it part time to accommodate your childcare schedule, which will obviously mean it takes even longer. It's better to be led by what you're passionate about rather than the other way around, because there are pockets of most careers that allow flexibility (for example, lawyers, accountants etc who work for government or regulators typically have much more flexibility than their counterparts in private practice - it's a trade off for higher salaries). You're more likely to succeed if you enjoy it.

Have you looked at the civil service? Lots of comms/external affairs roles and decent flexibility. Pay isn't great but the pension is excellent.

I'm not sure you have thought this through. You want high paid, interesting and flexible but can't offer much in the way of experience or commitment. Its not much of an incentive to employers if you look at it from their perspective. I think you need to prioritise high paid, interesting and flexible and compromise accordingly. If high paid go back to PR in London, if flexible think about something locally that probably won't be well paid and if interesting then go back to study something you feel passionately about. Further study sounds like it could suit you best in the short term perhaps with a view to committing to a career when the DCs are a bit older and more independent. But please don't spend years studying something just because of the future salary especially if you don't need the money - it would be soul destroying.

I have a family friendly career and working part time I earn circa 80000, depending on how much school holidays I take off. However, it’s taken a phd and several years of working very hard to get here - I can’t think of a job that you’ll walk into immediately post degree and have great flexibility and good salary. I wonder if you choose the aspects that are most important , salary, ability to WFH, flexibility, working for self or others etc and discussed that and your strengths with someone in the industries you are interested in to gauge feasibility??

I would have thought PR was as flexible as you could get and you could likely work remotely at least most of the time. Have you explored options in this area?

Family friendly and a career in law do not go hand in hand! Speaking as a working mum lawyer, it’s a nightmare of a juggle with incredibly long hours. I can only make it work because I have a supportive partner who is able to do school drop offs/collections when I am working. I appreciate it will depend what area of law you work in and some areas may be better than others but I know lots and lots of lawyers working in a variety of different areas of law and we all moan about the work/life balance. I’m afraid it’s absolutely absurd to me that you’d see a career in law as offering the flexibility you want. It’s a notoriously demanding job, subject to inflexible court deadlines and client demands. Not to mention of course that it requires years of study and training at significant expense!

This.

as a woman who is very senior and has a lot of freedom and flexibility I firmly believe the vast majority of men don’t ask for/take the flexibility they could if they wanted to. I’m afraid unless he’s a pilot, I’m deeply suspicious of the men who have to be away to unknown locations at a moments notice (and I say this as someone who travels internationally several times per month).

Instead they rely on their female partners to pick up the slack, because why not?

The vast majority of senior corporate jobs do in fact have huge amounts of flexibility available so if your DH isn’t getting that it’s either a specific company issue or a DH issue.

OP I feel like you want things handed to you on a plate. As others have said, any high paying job needs to be grafted for. It doesn’t just fall into your lap.

I’m an interpreter. It’s highly paid, very flexible, and I work entirely for myself and decide my own working pattern, both remote and face to face. It’s ideal for family life, but I had to work my way up, study for many years, become fluent, then undertake additional training as well as yearly CPD requirements post-certification. There were years as a lower paid trainee before becoming fully qualified. I see the benefits now down the line where I earn well and work as I please, but it took a lot of time and effort getting to this point.

That’s a senior role. You’d need quals, experience and to work your way up to that over many years. It certainly wouldn’t be entry level!

Can you find a junior role in communications dept - maybe in civil service, it seems like a good progression from PR.

Are you for real? Would you trust a FA who had no experience?

Set up a PR company to support local businesses. You will need to work hard, but you will retain quite a lot of flexibility over when you do it

I'm a lawyer, my job is flexible now but it was the opposite of flexible when I was training. You have to be able to give it everything for a few years.

But would a £30k job really not be worth a bit of sacrifice from your DH? The benefits of working aren't just the annual salary but include: the long term career; the satisfaction in making your own money and not being reliant on anyone else; personal satisfaction/confidence from doing a job well; social benefit in meeting different people; depending on career a feeling that you are contributing to society/making a positive impact on someone's life/being creative etc.

Rather than focusing entirely on earnings think about what you enjoy/ what would give you satisfaction.

I'll be honest OP, I find your way of looking at things very strange.

Your husband is such a high earner that it's not worth you working for less than 50k? Surely his high salary gives you the opportunity (luxury!) to pursue a career you're interested in even if the money isn't great?

You "wouldn't know where to start" with a job closely related to what you were doing before, but you're happy to consider paying a lot of money to train in field you literally know nothing about?!

Anyway, I was going to suggest PR/marketing/admissions for a private school. The hours will likely be more than you might expect, but there would probably be flexibility to do some of them from home (and/or in the evenings). The money will be less than you're hoping, but you might get remission on fees (which could be worth a lot if you were thinking of private school anyway).

There are many fundraising executive jobs in the charity sector that are remote and might suit your PR skillset. Seriously, always dozens available. Another area that often has remote jobs is senior HR.

Initially, your post invoked some empathy, but later I was really put off by several comments. Do you think everyone easily lands flexible, well-paid jobs without qualifications? You said it’s not worth entering teaching for a 30k salary, but many people make sacrifices and advance; they don’t earn 30k forever. Ask PhD holders in Pharmacy with substantial student debt and years of study, who are just happy to start as scientists earning 35k a year. Of course, they will progress and earn much more eventually. You need to shift your mindset and be willing to make sacrifices now, get qualified and accept low pay initially.

I’d agree with a lot of what’s already been said. Theres lots of family friendly roles once you’ve got the leverage of being good / senior and have your feet under the table. I’d say while you’re training you’ve probably got to pay your dues and don’t underestimate the pressure of studying while working at the same time.

Sounds like another major factor is being leaving London. I know a few people who’ve don’t it and found something in their field more broadly or made it work another wary, A friend who did retail PR/marketing now does internal comms at a building society that is HQ where she is. Another worked in psychology and went into tech doing user experience remotely. I managed to keep my London job and work remotely. Would your employer offer that - or is there freelance work?

I’d say the better route as a starting point would be to think about what’s in your geographic area that you could transfer your skills and qualifications to. There are lots of national / international companies HQ or with a big presence outside of London as well as other organisations like local authorities. You’ll just have to pivot a bit but much easier than starting from scratch. Don’t a lot of PR skills transfer into comms, for example?

Nope not SCS, that’s why I still have so much flexibility and freedom lol. Grade 6 with specialist allowance. I entered SEO aged 30 and was a G6 within 4 years. I did have a related career for the 8 or so years before I joined though, but retrained specifically for the specialism I have now.

I work in an independent creative advertising agency that’s family friendly! Lots of flexibility around hours, we’re treated as adults as long as you get your work done and clients are happy, then there are no issues. Saying that there are some unavoidable deadlines/overnight shoots etc but they are few and far between these days thankfully. I’m sure a lot of your skills in PR are transferrable.

You are gunning for a big salary if you don't want to put the hours in.
You like the idea of doing another degree- how about psychiatry, it's a career, flexible with a very high per hour rate.

I would echo others suggesting civil service / arms length bodies for flexibility. I've worked in two ALBs for over a decade and they're very flexible. You could use your PR background for roles in external comms and engagement - may be a good fit?

It sounds like OP isn’t really that passionate about it. It’s a great job but not everyone is suited to it . It requires a very specific set of skills: resilience, humour, energy, subject knowledge, diplomacy, determination etc.