The Left have a become a snivelling self-righteous mob, busy bodying around, trying to shame others

So the solution is apparently “give full citizenship to anyone without limits so they vote for parties I approve of”. Righto.

Sure.

It takes 30% plus to get in power. Not many can get close. Agree quibbling over the term majority is pointless, of course that 30% ish can give a parliamentary majority.

The hard Left and the Hard Right are two cheeks of the same arse. Polanski and Farage are both charlatans. The centre ground Libertarian Left/Right has always been where most progress has been made. That has been left abandoned and wide open. Even by the so called Lib Dems, who are actually called Liberal Democrats!

But it is not the priority the media have made it. Quite frankly.

It is just that is is easy to see (note the race aspects).

What they should be doing is looking at how to 1) raise tax revenue to pay for improved services and 2) support the economy to recover from a pretty terrible 10 years (Covid, Brexit, wars etc.).

Actually make changes that support people. And be honest that recovery will cost money and take time.

They also need to tackle things like foreign interference in UK politics by actually banning foreign donations to political parties. By having proper meaty fine for social media companies that continually allow fake news through lack of moderation (incidentally what the social media companies have asked governments to do as they cannot justify the cost of proper moderation without having a hefty negative financial consequence if they do not. Shareholders rules).

Also talk to people. Find out what the real concerns are that are being blamed on immigration, vaccines, women not being submissive to mental etc. most of that comes down to people not being able to afford a basic pleasant life.

I have stated a fact. You have responded emotionally to a fact. So who is irrational do you think?

I would say the Labour government are Centrist as are many of their MP's but there are a large vocal backbench element who are hard left (plus the Unions). Labour were elected on a centre Left platform of growth, helping working people and business. Starmer is too weak to stand up to the Hard Left element of his party, he hasn't got the charisma to charm them into looking at the bigger picture, and has caved in to them so many times they think they can just ignore what he says and act as the official opposition if they don't like what he says. How can you get anywhere when you suspend MP's for voting against your own budget, then say 'Oh yeah OK lets do what you wanted anyway' and pretending its because suddenly the economy is strong enough to deal with it when anyone with eyes can see its not? Putting stupid and ill thought out policies through that would have been fine if they had thought about it for 5 seconds, and many people would agree with, like capping the Winter fuel payment, but not making it so that pensioners who haven't worked a day in their lives get the same pension as those who have paid 25 years of NI. Stupid unforced error after stupid unforced errors. Good ideas made bad over and over again. Those same Leftist MP's not a peep out of them when it comes to funding cuts in education, or to scrutinise how actually inheritance tax for farmers could be made fairer for family farms, etc etc.

If it was up to me, I would open the borders for the next few years leading up to the next national election and give citizenship to every single person who comes here. Make sure they drown out Reform's votership completely.

Then the right will never get anywhere in UK politics ever again.

... I hasten to add the people most likely to push an authoritarian approach ARE Reform. Lots of talk about free speech, but only where it allows them to say whatever they like. They actively attempt to restrict media access/ censor media (banning journalists in Nottinghamshire from attending open council meetings for example).

Absolutely. But I do think they need to look at immigration too.

They’re not in the majority. 70% of the votes cast on Thursday were for parties other than Reform and only a third of the English electorate was able to vote at all. I’m quite happy to watch them wend their merry way and reap what they’ve sown.

Incidentally, the screaming abuse and bullying on this thread are all in one direction. Why can’t you just be happy you got what you wanted on this occasion? I was celebrating in 2024, not haranguing people who didn’t vote the way I did.

Gosh! Did you mean to be so rude? Are you OK?

The posts on the local Facebook pages are from people who think the local Reform councillors will stop illegal immigrants, and the comments and images below are pretty typical examples of the Reform voters' posts, unfortunately.

Haha I'm laughing at quite a few people trying to defend the labour council that was. Except it LABOUR LOST

Dry ya eyes mates labour who?

Taxi for Houghton tatty bye old bean

Nar what when fromage came to tarn he got eggd lmao

I do not think so. I think people absolutely need to look at why people are voting Reform. And perhaps instead of pandering to right wing narratives do something about the issues impacting many people. Incidentally very little to do with immigration.

This. And also hates any white straight men who do not confirm to a very specific vision of masculinity (that generally hates women).

Oh I see we’re in the “Reform surges don’t matter bla bla only this percentage of the electorate voted” stage of denial here. Who is going to save the day? Labour? The Greens?

Or - there has been a massive swing towards populism supported by lots and lots of money and deliberate media and social media manipulation. That - as has always been the case - parts of the left are disorganised and often fighting each other.

It does not make fascism cool. And I would raise an eyebrow at anyone who thinks they are being cool supporting right wing bigots on the make.

That does not mean you cannot be critical of how parts of the left have conducted themselves.

There is an in between that does not mean lurching wildly from one kind of authoritarianism to another.

I think the difference is that the right are overly focused on the wrong 1% (migrants) and not the 1% we should really be angry at (billionaires) funnily enough these billionaires own the papers and media that is convincing you all that migrants are the problem...

It's rasism disguised as patriarchy.

Apart from their stance on immigration can someone please explain what policies you liked of reform? Was it the abolishion of the equalities act? The privatisation of the nhs? Or was it the idea of having an 'ice' type establishment that will send anyone non British home wether they have the right to be here or not? What's reforms stance on isreal/gaza?

Because all I have heard from anyone on the right recently is 'stop the boats' the boats that have got worse because of brexit. Remember brexit? When farage printed a LIE on a bus about how it will help the NHS? Has brexit helped the NHS? Wheres all this extra money they promised from brexit? All I can see is spiralling living costs and over run boarders.

So as a middle class, hard working, tax paying, mixed herritage woman I find it difficult to vote for a party that seems to dislike anyone who isn't a white british man.

The left parties aren't great either, there is no right party to vote for at the moment, as the system is broken.

But let's all try to not be rasict, sexist or fascist towards eachother. Lets not try to insult others intelligence because they have different morals and ideas about what they want from the government.

You get arseholes on the right, and arseholes on the left... thats just humans

Quite. I just can’t fathom it unless it’s to create a distraction.

'The left' as you put it, haven't been shaming people enough. If you know anybody who voted Reform or intends to vote Reform in the future you need to call them out in public, make them explain themselves to society/their friends/colleagues etc. Make them a pariah in society. They'll get the message soon enough.

@InstantlyBella The former East Germany did this. The Stasi forced large numbers of citizens to inform on their friends and neighbours, using various means such as threatening to take away a son or daughter’s place at medical school etc. Anyone critical of the government was cancelled.
Do you really want society run like this?
in UK at the moment there is still the secret ballot. Do you think how people vote should be made public?

My own take on Labour presently is that they are doomed. Especially if they think Harriet Harman and Gordon Brown are going to save them.
The man hasn’t lost the plot. I am not sure he had a plot in the first place. Which is entirely the problem.

I think some are journalists, some are politicos from the various political parties. Anyone can join Mumsnet and worth remembering that.

Reform's entire personality is self victimisation, provocation and demonisation.
They lose they do more of it.
They win they do more of it.
It's all they have.

It's going to make actually having some power, having to deliver results and having to be the person they're normally angry with very interesting.

'Blue Collar workers' is an American term and is not used in the UK.

I won't check back

Why not? Don't you like the facts?

They most certainly are not. They are about 50% of the white English electorate and are getting smaller and smaller with each passing day (because most of them are above 50).

Society absolutely can afford to reject them, and it will.