The Left have a become a snivelling self-righteous mob, busy bodying around, trying to shame others

I don't see any replies from you to this particular poster, no counter arguments or denunciation of the views being expressed. Someone openly talking about subverting democracy and disenfranchising white working class people didn't bother you much apparently. You replied to me very quickly though. Interesting.

Wonder if dear old Ed is gearing up for a second go.

Well at least you’ve gone full Emily Thornberry not hiding behind ‘ill informed’ or ‘thick’. May as well describe the people you mean.

'I never thought I'd see the day when the Right became the cool ones giving the finger to the establishment, and the Left became the snivelling self-righteous ones going around shaming everybody'

<CRINGE>

One person. Nobody else from the left of centre on this thread has said anything remotely similar.

That ship long sailed. Most people are not voting with this bitter, angry mob. Which is making them even more bitter and angry.

You wrote:

we should really be angry at (billionaires)

Ok, go ahead. How does that help. As I asked. The billionaires are leaving, how much richer are you as a result?

If they all left, do you think you will be richer.

I might actually have to hold my nose and do that at the next GE if Reform gets much more of a hold round here, it would be the only way to beat them.

Evidently not the extent of my thinking. My point being that everyone is angry at migrants, and blaming them for the state of the country. I think it much more damaging that a small percentage of society hoard ridiculous amounts of wealth while most people are struggling to get by.

Would you like to address any of my other concerns about reform?

No doubt the (at least) 18 million people coming into the country would not be contributing. Do you think any of the small boat arrivals are going to be care workers? Would you want them to be your carer or your parents’? Strict Muslims have strong rules regarding dealing with people out of the family. Eg they are not allowed to adopt/foster, let alone wipe a bum of someone of the opposite sex.

I don’t agree with you on much, but I do agree on this - an awful lot of thinking of the far left ( not those of us who are centre left) revolves around thinking that making rich people poorer will make poorer people richer - it doesn’t factor in there are many ( not all) poorer people who are so because they want to do fuck all to better themselves or work as little as possible ( and by the way that involves some Reform voters too who I think are a bit mixed up and don’t think any toughness will affect them)

And taxing the billionaires more proportionately would absolutely be enough to finance as many as 18 million additional people in the country.

@InstantlyBella as pp have pointed out, the billionaires would be long gone.
I’ll try again with my question to you:
Do you think how people vote should be made public?

Summed up the intellectual limitations of leftist thinking right there.

You lack imagination if you think that for someone to get rich, someone else had to be poor. M

The billionaires are leaving. Is that making you richer. If they all left the country, do you think you will be richer all of a sudden?

I don't think left or right means much anymore, but both sides can be snivelling self righteous mob busy bodies who try to shame others. It seems to come with grasping for power.

The more one side makes claim about the other side is, the more it comes across that every accusation is a confession.

I'm not convinced he's particularly anti establishment but the very fact that he calls out immigration shows he's not part of the establishment - which is presumably why he's got significant support

The Tories have talked about immigration for decades. That they failed to do what they claimed doesn't mean it wasn't a mainstream, establishment talking point.

Immigration had never been higher. The Tories broke all records when it comes to immigration. Fact.

It's also fact that the Tories made a couple hundred changes to immigration laws over those 14 years, many under claims that it would reduce immigration numbers. They brought in Biometric Residency Permit requirements, claiming the paper ones in passports were no longer 'safe enough' to prove Right to Work or Right to Public Services in the UK and so made them required for non-EU migrants to reduce illegal working and medical tourism (though they remained safe enough to travel). They brought in "private partners" to manage immigration paperwork, develop apps for submitting those paperwork, increasing the fees to do so that went to private partners.

It was Tory Chancellor George Osbourne who said in Parliament that the Immigration services in the UK are "for profit". I think he left out who was going to get those profits.

The Tories made many claims whether it's on immigration, benefits, spending. They did not meet most of those claims. Whether they were actively lying to persuade people while doing otherwise or failed - likely a mix of both - is debateable. It's remains a fact that they made repeated claims about reducing immigration while overseeing the highest rate.

Their claims fall generally under the umbrella of centre-right. Their results fall under the umbrella of self-interest.

Yep - that's the Greens, Labour, Lib Dems, and Reform covered. Let's be sensible and vote for the Conservatives at the GE

Conservatives are covered as well. They brought in some of the biggest self righteous busybody surveillance shifts, and openly shamed people who questioned it. Labour is continuing on with that. Two cheeks of the same ass.

The idea that any political party is sensible is a laugh. They're only as sensible as they are actually accountable.

Do you realize that you are coming across as the most tired cliche of a sneering leftie. Literally the Emily Thornberry kind.

Because the Tories were so brilliant at not being “shitty self serving, finger pointing groups of people who have no idea how to run a country & plan for a long term future” over their 14 years?

“The left are a snivelling, self righteous bunch”
”The right are all thick and racist”
”The left hate women!”
”The right hate women!”
”The left are all woke!”
”The right hate brown people!”

Where are my sensible, centrists at? Other political view points ARE available. As is the option not to keep being dragged in to squabbles with people over which side is worse.

We have rising unemployment, nearly million NEETs. We need to support the people here already to do the work. It won't be easy but pulling the immigration lever for an influx of cheap labour isn't the answer.

You're not going to get your quality of life back without addressing wealth inequality. It really is as simple as that.

Doesn't matter how many migrants you deport, how many benefits you slash or how many children you force into poverty, if you elect politicians who allow the top 10% of the population to double their wealth every 5 years the other 90% will get poorer.

Absolutely. Perfect example, talk about sneering condescension and prejudice. And still no “sorry” of course.

Are you actually joking? Your post upthread that the white working class can safely be ignored is really really offensive. Followed by a non apology and a further list of offensive stereotypical bullshit showing exactly how you view those that you are insulting.

And now you are going to flounce off claiming to be “bullied” by those who challenge your prejudice?

Unbelievable.

Who do you prefer?