AIBU to feel so weary of labour voters going on

Getting up to date - what do you make of the unfolding Labour leadership challenge?

Mn has it on most threads. Not sure how people miss it.

I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but there do seem to be far more people complaining about the negative characterisation of Reform voters than people characterising them that way! If I was Reform HQ I’d be quietly pleased about that…..

@dizzydizzydizzy It’s all very well wanting expensive government investment (Keynes Economics) but that’s best done when the economy is bouyant and growing. Thats plainly not the case and hasn’t been for many years. Labour has actually recognised that but slid out of making cuts to our huge welfare budget and taxed work! Increased benefits might “help” a few temporarily big it’s not a long term strategy to make anyone better off overall and certainly won’t increase the tax take. Our borrowing is sky high because of this and most people know this has curtailed all the spending you want. Do you want our DC to be saddled with endless debt during their lives? It’s already £112 bn per annum. (OBR)

Reform and the Greens are befitting from protest votes. Plus the short termism and short fuse of voters resulting in anger. Anyone who thinks Farage can be trusted about anything is utterly naive. He’s brought us nothing but trouble so far and is the great disruptor. Immigration concern is often cited by Reform supporters and many other areas of discontent. We do of course need immigration. What is utterly stupid @livingonstrawbs is thinking Farage and co have the answers. None of them do and the Greens are student politics with no costed policies. I utterly despair!

It’s mainly because of pensioners but what are you going to let them do? Starve?

Yes it’s all very low brow and immature nowadays. Dumbing down has been fast and seems relentless, and zero benefit from it. It’s a toxic zeitgeist.

I’d Absolutely love to think it could change, but it just seems to worsen and worsen.

Sounds like Louise Haigh is also preparing a leadership challenge for next week

https://x.com/i/status/2053148171832901739

I admit that I worry about Reform’s lack of experience (I have the same fears about PC and Greens), but I also accept a mandate - Labour fucked it up so badly that they lost theirs and of course when people are suffering, politics doesn’t occur in a vacuum. I’m not going to judge or blame anyone who voted for them. I just think they’ll make a hash of the areas where they’re in control, but hey, Labour have made an absolute fucking hash of Westminster, so who knows? I’m hoping a coalition in Holyrood will lead to Scotland not being a complete shitshow in any one direction. I don’t have enough knowledge of the Senedd to share an opinion on it.

But no, there is only one person to blame for the electoral success of Reform and it’s not any one voter and it’s not even Nigel Farage - it’s Keir Starmer, for not realizing that when he couldn’t control his own party and stop political infighting, he should have gotten the fuck out of the way for someone who could. Doesn’t matter now, because it’ll be like the Lib Dems post university fees - no one will trust Labour for another 10+ years. They had their chance and either accomplished nothing OR failed so badly at communicating their accomplishments to the electorate vs. narratives about their political squabbles.

No one should tell you that you’re an idiot for your political beliefs. There’s no bloody universal truth inherent to one political party - it’s all 100% subjective! So what they’re really saying is: my opinion is better than yours. Stand behind whatever you believe; no one has the right to persuade you with such condescending horseshit. They need a more persuasive argument and it’s not your fault (or mine, or anyone else’s) that they don’t have one and feel threatened.

Totally agree OP.

But the consensus from the people who post on Mumsnet seems to be: You are stupid and racist if you vote Reform. And any thread that says otherwise will be deleted.

Today online has felt very similar to the days after the Brexit vote.

I had some quite privileged friends on Facebook who were so outraged that people voted differently to themselves that they called everyone stupid and racist, and made no attempt to find out why people might have different priorities in their lives to them.

I'm tired of people that support all parties going on and on about the supporters of other parties, it's everybody, not just Labour supporters.

I'm fed up the relentless Facebook comments with ad hominem attacks and clown emojis or claims that supporters of X party are brainless or unwashed or racist or anti-semites.

We should all be ashamed ourselves and lift the quality of the debate or let people support who they want without attacking them!

Do you read MN?! 😂😂😂

BBC

Henry Zeffman
Chief political correspondent
This is a big moment.
Catherine West does not want to be leader of the Labour Party. And she is not going to be leader of the Labour Party.
But she has just kicked off the process by which the Labour Party may have its first leadership election since Keir Starmer was elected in 2020.
West’s plan (which she says she came up with this morning) is this: by Monday, either the cabinet will have ousted Starmer, or West’s colleagues will have a chance to nominate her formally to contest the party leadership.
It is highly unlikely that West would get to the 81 MPs required for there to be a full ballot of party members between her and Starmer.
But suppose she got close? Suppose dozens of Labour MPs backed West as a show of frustration? That might be enough to tempt others to launch a leadership bid.
Or it might fall apart rapidly and prompt Labour MPs to row in behind Starmer, solidifying his position for now.
Let’s see. Whatever happens next, this is a big moment.

Totally agree.
Starmer tried to cut benefits but his own party stopped him.
there’s not enough money to go round and people who are working shouldn’t be paying for others who won’t work. Benefits should be a short term crisis support not a way of life.
im sick of it

You have to be far left to oppose immigration controls, which is what Reform want.

You don't have to be far left to be anti Reform.

This band of far left extremists should really just join the Greens now. And crack on with abusing women and pretending men can be women, legalizing class A drugs, abolishing prisons, disbanding our armed forces, opening the borders and abolishing all immigration rules and all the other totally crazy things they want to do.

They are so out of touch calling 8 millions Reform voters racist. They have no idea.

How do you account for the rise all across Europe voting for more right parties? They didn't leave the EU. They are suffering the poor decisions of the free movement of people and lax immigration rules. Their economies are hardly thriving either and suffering with silly climate change agendas. Most sane minded people have had enough of the same old parties and the same old nonsense.

I think some folks,,like the op really do think it’s about the pm. It’s not. Of all the no marks in the Labour Party without a shadow of a doubt Starmer is now the most capable, he has experience, yes he’s shite,and incapable in general terms but way more capable than the likes of burnham or the rest of them. The bar is low.

the issue is the policies. They’ve taxed the public hard, lied.even unite is limiting support due to what they’ve done to the average working person . Removing the two child benefit cap doesn’t take children out of poverty, it’s an idealogy not reality, and plunging workers into poverty to pay the massive bill to pay for it makes child poverty worse.

the net zero thing millibamd is obsessed with, stopping drilling in the North Sea, thousands of jobs lost,us all paying so much more for our energy

the economy was recovering after Covid,and now we are in a even worse position,

andy burnham coming in isn’t going to change the polices. Who is prime minister is irrelevant.

I see more people fed up of all the main parties and angry, but also being worried about Reform. Depends on your social circle I guess.

I don't quite understand your post - your Labour voting friends are saying they believe Farage has been held to account and it's all Polanksi's fault? That's not a take I've heard.

I'm not massively well off - I'm not in some bubble just supporting Labour as I'm alright jack. I'm doing ok and was doing ok under the Tories. So what? Reform will do absolutely nothing for those who are not well off and voting for them to do something about it.

I’m amazed that Reform did so well. I’m glad to see the loss of confidence in Labour so plainly demonstrated. I agree though that Labour voters are very stuck in a rut in believing they are the top notch citizens and everyone else is either evil or stupid or both.

Totally agree OP.
Yes, they inherited a shit show but the bar was soooooo low and they’ve made the hole they are in so much bigger, everyone is poorer. Yet somehow think they occupy a moral high ground?
The only thing that will save us is some economic growth. What’s the first thing they do- shovel loads of taxes onto business. The mind boggles.
I’m ashamed to admit I voted for them thinking they couldn’t be worse than the Conservatives. Sorry everyone, I was wrong.

I’m not particularly fond of any party at the moment. I do think there’s an issue with people feeling disenfranchised that is driving the reform vote. But I also do think people voting for them are at best naive and at worst racist. They aren’t going to make anything better and probably will make life much worse for many. Simple solutions to complex problems is what they’re peddling and that sounds attractive but won’t solve anything.

Oh, you've dented my argument that not many people say this.

I think calling (all) reform voters racist doesn't help. 1) because it's not true. 2) it shuts down debate as it just becomes a swapping of insults. 3) it leads to kind of the mirror idea that those who oppose reform are only interested in "wokism" and diversity etc when there are all sorts of logical economic and practical reasons that can be articulated against reform policies.