AIBU to feel so weary of labour voters going on

Most of the Labour voting people I know who are vocal about it are very wealthy champagne socialists with more than one house, range rovers, multiple holidays, private education and healthcare etc.

They don’t know about, or want to be around, the working classes but it makes them feel better about themselves to see themselves as ‘socialist’ and ‘right on’.

Unfortunately the middle classes like them never have bear the impact of things like unfettered mass immigration or living in shit hole areas where nothing gets better EU or non EU, Tory or Labour. This is why when the frustrated working classes get told they are thick gammons for voting they way they do by ignorant affluent people, it just makes them double down even more.

I am interested to know why so many people voted for Reform? Other than issues around immigration and benefits. This is a genuine question. I’m in NI and whoever you lot vote for in a future General Election are the people we’re stuck with too, despite our devolved government. I could, of course, look at Reform’s policies, but that still doesn’t tell me whether people rate them generally or whether they are voting based on a single policy. From across the Irish Sea, it all looks pretty unsettling to be honest.

That’s an awful lot of people you have labelled - judging by yesterday’s results.

@FOJN Labour might well be accurate thst their working class (or not working) voters are in fact right leaning and like the death penalty and no immigration. Look at the NE. Labour for decades, then Brexit and Boris, back to Labour and now Reform. It’s voting for the latest port offering a gilded future which simply won’t happen.

Reform is the party that attracts racists and many of their candidates are open about it.

If you are ok with that, then vote Reform

And it's not just those on the left who won't vote Reform and judge you for it.

also can we stop accusing people you don’t agree with of being a member of so and so HQ. I’ve been accused of this and I am most certainly not. Given how the voting went yesterday there are quite a lot of genuine reform voters and enough people who may not have voted reform but are reasoned and non hysterical enough to actually have tried to form a more nuanced understanding of whats going on.

Also tbh reform aren’t making me feel like it’s the 1930’s the Greens are with the number of anti-semites it’s managed to attract. That shit is genuinely scary, the stuff some of their councillors have said would have had them hounded if they were white. It’s all quite extraordinary.

It’s a knee jerk thing with them. Like a glitch in the matrix. It’s their first, second, third, fourth.. hold on… it’s their ONLY response!

confirmation bias trap in action.

I am guilty here of using a word I normally
hate, but the Reform voters seem to be getting a little bit ‘snowflakey’ with their hurt feelings these days.

I agree OP. Neither Labour or the Conservatives have addressed the concerns of people who are struggling. Labour has probably been worse because not only have they ignored their traditional working class voter base they have dismissed them as "right wing thugs". Rishi Sunak asking a homeless man if he'd considered a career in finance is consistent with the Conservative lie of meritocracy.

You are neither stupid or ignorant, you just have a more relevant experience than those who think they know better and will not compromise. The Labour Party and many supporters have been hate filled authoritarians for quite a few years now. Reform is the response to that and now the rise in the Greens popularity is a reaction to Reform. Essentially the middle failed and many voters are retreating to the extremes of the political spectrum in the hope of being heard.

Neither the Greens or Reform will provide solutions but until Labour ditch their holier than thou attitude we won't be able to have the difficult discussions that are necessary to work our way towards a broad consensus. At this point the Conservatives are irrelevant.

YANBU! i’m am ethnic minority person as well, reform isn’t my cup of tea but I completely understand why people have voted the way they have. I’ve been both skint and very middle class and I’m genuinely astounded sometimes at the middle class people I know, they are never going to have to live the lives of the people they look down on, make no genuine effort to empathise.

I think the fundamental problem is the Labour party as a whole are in one place and significant parts of the population are in a completely different place. People are basically just choosing the nuclear option now, they don’t trust any party to deliver what they said they would. Every party talks about working people yet their taxes rise and welfare has expanded, every party said they will control immigration and yet the pace of immigration rose. I’m not sure you can blame reform voters for thinking “fuck it, why not”.

I’m pretty sure that Marine Le Pen blame’s immigration for the majority of France’s problems. Although I’m not sure why this is relevant here.

That’s no longer true though is it? I know Reform voters who are far from racist. They are accused of it though by people like you. 🤷‍♀️

I don’t know yet! I’ll let you know…

YABU. People are weary because the same bunch of see you next Tuesdays that are responsible for Brexit is being voted for. I mean, Brexit ffs, a shower of unending shit that has made us all measurably poorer. If people are voting for that, yes, I’m weary. There’s no conversation to be had.

Continually trying to play the ‘R’ care inappropriately is just one of the reasons you had yesterday’s results. It’s cheap and has lost its power.

People have had enough of being accused of racism.

it feels like the politics of 1930s Germany. Find someone, anyone, to blame. I’m ashamed of this country and our lurch to the racist, xenophobic, jingoistic right.

If their darling Labour Party were doing what they promised and were doing well, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. That whole Epstein / Mandelson cover up was beyond despicable. No doubt that was the Tories fault too.

To be fair I was thinking of "real life" conversations rather than online engagement.

Speaking of the leadership challenge - a Labour MP has said they are confident West would get the 80 votes needed to trigger a leadership contest.

In fact it sounds like only the cabinet don't want Starmer gone.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c1428pev1n0t

This cannot be serious.

She was the one who got fired and prosecuted for stealing phones from her employer before becoming an MP. The standard of MPs is in the gutter. And these clowns think they are good enough to run the country. No wonder this country is cooked.

Do you mean the suspiciously high number of posts like this? I’m not a conspiracy theorist either, but yes, a political party would be stupid not to utilize MN for media framing. The opinions I share are the same, regardless of whether the OP is genuine, but the very act of engagement may be encouraging it, and that does worry me a little bit.

Any time “hidden” (not publicly admitted) persuasive techniques are being used, it indicates something societally is becoming quite fucked up. The going rate used to be £50 plus if you wanted a front page thread - now it’s either £20 or just use enough VPNs to DIY. It’s my opinion that Meta properties are even worse for allowing this at an alarming rate, but that’s also just my totally subjective opinion as a former “professional” in propaganda and negatively-persuasive techniques.

I don't think all Reform voters are stupid, or racist. To write them off like this is very dangerous as it doesn't address the root issues.

I think many of them are desperate - for change, for hope, for more money in their pocket after working hard, for a better education for their children, better healthcare etc

Of course, Reform aren't going to deliver any of the above, but I don't blame people for feeling frustrated and disillusioned and trying to find another option.

It makes me think of Hitler Germany. The people who voted him in democratically were struggling and he promised them food and houses and tvs and cars. They were not all stupid, or mean, they were struggling to feed their children and were desperate, and later scared. Fear and hope are the 2 most powerful drivers in making choices - most major decisions are led by one or both of these.

If Reform gets in, Starmer and Co are to blame for letting down those who voted for and put their trust in them.

There’s a lot more cries of ‘ racism! ‘ than actual racism, as well. Anyone’d think internet chat was a tad histrionic sometimes….