AIBU to feel so weary of labour voters going on

I agree. The media and the manipulation of social media.

I agree with you on your second paragraph - like I said, they're not my cup of tea. but despite all that, they're promising change and for some people that's enough because the 'unknown' is they havent been in power as a government and when they tell people they're the only credible option to improve things people will go for that with no viable alternative.

this is why i also think the media has a lot to answer for.

Both are populist parties led by snake oil salesmen, but Farage is legions worse than Polanski and my feeling is that there is a much larger percentage of racist reform voters than there is of antisemitic Green voters. Not all parties are the same, there is most definitely a sliding scale of atrociousness and reform are, in my opinion, worse than greens. Lots of the reform voters I know are racist. None of the Green voters I know are antisemitic, They tend to be more of the type that are “so open minded their brains have fallen out”. I don’t live in an area with à l high Muslim population, so I imagine my viewpoint is skewed by my experience. Lots of the “non-racist” reform voters I know see the same spread of people that I do, so why are they less bothered by it?

In addition, Labour has been horrendously cowardly in not taking a far stronger stand on the war crimes in Palestine. I can understand people marching in protests against war crimes, and we should all protest, but it’s impossible to march without doing so alongside “internationalise the intifada” types, so I don’t know what the solution is there.

For the sake of balance, do you apply the same logic to the Green Party?
I am not being provocative - just curious if people draw the same conclusion.

Unfotunately you won’t get the honest answer, which is that for many people anti semitism is acceptable.

Some of the comments from Green candidates are abhorrent, yet they never seem to get labelled racist like Reform.

Thanks - also curious to know the answer.

I don't think all Reform voters are stupid, or racist. To write them off like this is very dangerous as it doesn't address the root issues.

I think many of them are desperate - for change, for hope, for more money in their pocket after working hard, for a better education for their children, better healthcare etc

Of course, Reform aren't going to deliver any of the above, but I don't blame people for feeling frustrated and disillusioned and trying to find another option.

It makes me think of Hitler Germany. The people who voted him in democratically were struggling and he promised them food and houses and tvs and cars. They were not all stupid, or mean, they were struggling to feed their children and were desperate, and later scared. Fear and hope are the 2 most powerful drivers in making choices - most major decisions are led by one or both of these.

If Reform gets in, Starmer and Co are to blame for letting down those who voted for and put their trust in them.

I would like to share an excellent (I think) readers comment from the FT.

My own view, as a former Labour supporter and resident in a constituency which should be a slam-dunk Labour stronghold is that the party have lost their way and fragmented which all political parties seem to do. Like it or not, insult it or not, but this country is rejecting immigration. That is a fact. They are rejecting it and that rejection is also coming from previous tranches of immigrants who have settled in the UK.

There is a widespread belief that this period of migration (2000-2026) is unprecedented and different. Over the last 25 years we have shifted the Overton Window so much that numbers like 150,000 or 200,000 in regards to annual immigration now seem tame and manageable and they are far from it.

Any other political debate is moot when the spectre of immigration looms on the political battlefield because working class and middle and upper class will absolutely unite on that one issue - the UK is rejecting mass migration and no insults will stop it.

More liberal and, dare I say it, younger voices can accuse people of racism as much as they want and froth online but at present Our social infrastructure is collapsing (housing, medical services, dentistry, schooling)

We cannot build a surplus while paying billions in subsidies, temporary housing and other administrative functions
Social unrest is growing
Migrant labour is suppressing wages - especially in the medical services; it is not that our NHS runs on migrants; it is that our NHS runs on low paid workers and migrants will accept those positions

You don't need to vote reform or even be right wing to understand these things; I cannot stand the Reform party but I can absolutely predict their path to power and why the British populace will vote them in.

Until the UK political establishment is willing to enact the will of the majority, protest votes will continue to undermine the nation with terrible outcomes. The model for limiting migration exists legally - it is the same as Japan, South Korea, Australia, Singapore and other nations.

The answer is simply no.

The Labour response seems to be raising taxes rather than reducing the level of benefits to be paid. That alone is a disqualifier for me but, even worse in the eyes of the layman, Labour are perceived to be raising taxes to hand to immigrants rather than citizens. That will not be forgiven but a voting populace. They would rather the status quo burn.

In Arbroath the council declared to it's constituents who enquired that a portion of their new build houses were reserved for migrant families. That is insanity. The same issue in other councils.

Have you heard of Glenn Gibbons? The good people of Sunderland just voted him in as a Reform councillor. He suggested on social media that Nigerians should be melted down and used to fill potholes. And yet Reform supporters still voted for him. With that level of discourse. I thought Farage was supposed to have weeded out the 'obviously' racist candidates. If Reform get in to national government we are well and truly stuffed.

I’m not particularly fond of any party at the moment. I do think there’s an issue with people feeling disenfranchised that is driving the reform vote. But I also do think people voting for them are at best naive and at worst racist. They aren’t going to make anything better and probably will make life much worse for many. Simple solutions to complex problems is what they’re peddling and that sounds attractive but won’t solve anything.

This is exactly what I think - things are so shit and have been for so long for so many people working, on the breadline etc and people are desperate for change from the status quo regardless of whether it will be delivered or not and to a certain extent they know what they will get from conservative/labour so they are moving to reform or green.

I am surrounded by affluent well off north london and west london labour friends who decry this move and are denouncing people leaving as being either thick or racist and saying the greens are 'opportunistic grifters' handing nigel farage a gift on a plate by further splitting the vote.

the issue is I see why they like labour for all its faults and go with the line 'best of a bad bunch.' for them it is the best of a bad bunch because theyre not really weathering the hard edge of life at the moment. for those who are, frankly well I can see why they would take a leap into the unknown for a pocketful of promises at this point. I cant sit and judge them for that.

It’s difficult because looking at it purely objectively, you are twice as likely to support Reform if not tertiary educated. Areas with wider support for Reform (and the far right) are often those with large swathes of the population having no qualifications at all. I’m looking into this as part of my research at the minute so can tell you in areas of South Yorkshire, for example, which have turned towards Reform, 1 in 4 people don’t have GCSEs.

Having said that, Reform also seem popular with some wealthy former tories, business owners and retirees so there is a mix in there and it’s unfair to say they’re all uneducated. I also hate the classism present throughout. It’s always middle class people on their high horses whinging about the ‘stupid working class’ being ignorant and illiterate. They’re clearly disenfranchised and who can blame them to be frank, I think many of us feel that way right now.

What I am a little surprised at (maybe) is how quickly folk have turned against Labour when they’ve actually done quite a lot for the poorest in society.

If that is true of Reform then it must be true of the Green party too?

There have been many examples of overt racism from their electoral candidates - and some of these were not removed from position by the Green leadership ahead of the elections.

So what does it say of the "fellow travellers" who will vote Green - not personally antisemitic but prepared to ignore antisemitism in others?

I have not looked too closely at the data, but I believe that those areas voting for Reform are relatively closely correlated with the pro-Brexit vote.

In short - Brexit fault lines remain.

In order to vote Reform you have to be prepared to overlook the overt racism of some senior party officials. Hence “fellow traveller”. As in not personally a racist but prepared to ignore racism in others.

Not all reform voters are racist, but certainly a large number of them are, including their leader whilst at school. I’m prepared to believe that racism isn’t the main driving force for some voters, but the fact remains that those non-racist voters don’t seem to be too bothered by the racist ones.

How many times on here do we read about stag dos and bad male behaviour in a poster’s husband’s friend group and we get the comment, well, if that’s what his friends are like, what do you think he’s like when you’re not there?

Why does the same not apply to reform voters? Why are they not worried that they’re voting in racists all over the country?

It’s difficult because looking at it purely objectively, you are twice as likely to support Reform if not tertiary educated. Areas with wider support for Reform (and the far right) are often those with large swathes of the population having no qualifications at all. I’m looking into this as part of my research at the minute so can tell you in areas of South Yorkshire, for example, which have turned towards Reform, 1 in 4 people don’t have GCSEs.

Having said that, Reform also seem popular with some wealthy former tories, business owners and retirees so there is a mix in there and it’s unfair to say they’re all uneducated. I also hate the classism present throughout. It’s always middle class people on their high horses whinging about the ‘stupid working class’ being ignorant and illiterate. They’re clearly disenfranchised and who can blame them to be frank, I think many of us feel that way right now.

What I am a little surprised at (maybe) is how quickly folk have turned against Labour when they’ve actually done quite a lot for the poorest in society.