AIBU to feel so weary of labour voters going on

I didn’t mean one kind of racism was as bad as another, I meant pretending you could make a woman’s breasts grow via hypnosis was not as bad as being racist.

@IfNot How does "They don’t seem to understand that wc people want opportunities for their kids, to start businesses, to have safe streets and good schools." work with Angela Rayer then for example?

Or with the 30% of working class people who voted Labour in the last general election?

Labour’s problem is basically the same problem the Democrats had when they couldn’t hold off Trump.
They just don’t seem to be able to connect with ordinary people at all. They parrot “working people” all day long, but they come across like metropolitan, upper levels of the civil service or the BBC-completely removed from the lives of most people in this country.
Their narrative is patronising and they focus on safety nets rather than aspiration, because they believe that working class people just need a higher minimum wage or better benefits.
They don’t seem to understand that wc people want opportunities for their kids, to start businesses, to have safe streets and good schools.
As for the racist issue- I genuinely do not believe most people are racist. The rough area I grew up in was much more racially mixed than where most politicians come from. But it depends what people mean by “racist”.
Due(ironically) to Brexit, the UK had a massive wave of immigration from African and Asian countries, very quickly. This has caused a very visible change in towns and cities, in schools, in hospital wards, in A&E, in the streets.
This, coupled with the asylum hotels and the high profile sexual assaults, has really scared people. It’s not racist to not want wholesale culture change almost overnight.
I think if the government (and the previous government) had not kept telling the population that it is all fine and nothing to see here, we wouldn’t be heading down this path of extremism on both sides.
Add to that the bizarre weaponising of a foreign war for political gain (Greens) and we are heading nowhere good.
Both scare the bejeezus out of me frankly.
The centre parties need to find a way to a much more honest and much less patronising message, and to be seen to be really tackling accelerated immigration, or we are screwed.

He really looks like a "man of the people" in that photo 🙄

OK, but...

And I am speaking here are someone who went hunt saboteuring as a youth...

Farage is a Russia-funded, racist, authoritarian who has already provided the biggest intentional economic shock to the UK economy - and therefore to the living standards of ordinary people - since WWII.

The fact that he supports fox-hunting is about the least objectionable objectionable thing about him.

Reform absolutely have some racist nutters but I do not believe that councils that were labour for more than 50 years turned reform because everyone became a racist overnight or is ok about racism.
Thank you for that @livingonstrawbs I had not seen that point expressed so clearly.

but honestly, when life is continually shit, people do vote for change and will vote for Reform or Greens.
Except for those who voted Labour, did many of us just vote for change? Did we merely make a rude gesture to Labour. Or did we vote for a kind of philosophy?

Vote Farage? You're voting fox and stag hunting.

I'm not trying to skate over any facts, if anything I'm trying to be factual that both Reform and the Green party have a worryingly racist element within them.

I agree that Farage is racist but it's possible to criticise two parties at the same time which I do with Reform and the Green party.

Sorry, what?

And it's clear that Farage is himself a massive racist. Why are you trying to skate over that fact in a thread about Reform?

This. Even if they are not racists they are clearly happy to pander to them.

They don't care that he supports the hunt and that Reform would also repeal the hunting ban.

It's not a competition. It's clear that both Polanski and Farage allow their parties to be represented by racists (anti Jewish in the case of Polanski, more general racism including anti Muslim in the case of Farage).

No, I said it was baked in that Farage - a racist - would allow Reform to be represented by (some) racists.

That doesn't mean every Reform candidate has to be a racist, they just have to not care that their leader is a racist.

Yes, you could say that.

Personally, I think it's a bit harder to argue that the Jewish leader of the Greens endorses anti-Semitism than it is to say that the racist leader of Reform is a racist.

Try being in Wales, sore Reform losers going on and on about “Plaidiots” getting into bed with “Liebour” (they aren’t) and about Rhun ap Iorwerth’s real name being Ron Jones (it isn’t) and saying God Help Wales. It’s getting very tiresome!

You implied that you see every Reform candidate as racist by you saying that it's "baked in" that Reform is represented by racists.

Is Nigel Farage racist? Yeah kinda.
Is it likely a party that’s never had any real power would prove to be super competent? Probably not

It’s not great. I’m just hoping it’s tactical voting rather than genuine support.

It doesn't.

The point I was making in that post was that the leader of the Green party allowed racist candidates to represent the party, thus endorsing antisemitism.

In response to your post that Reform voters are not necessarily racist, but they don't mind voting for a party whose leader is a racist... you could say that Green voters are not necessarily antisemitic, but they don't mind voting for a leader who endorses antisemitism within his party.

I didn't say every Reform candidate is racist.

I said the leader of Reform is racist.

But every Reform candidate clearly doesn't mind being part of a party whose leader is a racist.

Isn't this proving exactly OP's point. You are one of them so you are contradicting yourself by saying YABU

My brother votes Reform. He's lived on benefits for decades. He relies on the NHS for medication that is delivered in a bag to his door each month.

The area he lives in is 95% white British. Also awash with flags.

The local pub has 'No Labour MPs Welcome Here' signs in the window. It's a former mining area. Both our grandfathers were miners. They were staunch union and Labour voting.

The area was in receipt of millions of European funding. They voted Brexit.

My brother lives like an almost recluse. Only going out to hospital appointments where he is often treated by immigrants. Possibly the only time he will meet an immigrant unless they are delivering to his door.

His entire life is on line. He wonders how I can safely go about the streets and worries about me constantly - crime/immigrants/scams/Chinese viruses etc. Every single day he sends me pro Reform/anti-Starmer posts and memes.

He is a clever man. Successful at school. Not thick. Almost certainly racist although he would say not.

He might not be typical, but he is the person you are talking about.

I think that's too simplistic to say that every Reform candidate is racist. It would follow that every Reform voter is racist and that's a very intolerant position to take towards people who hold a different view to yourself re immigration.