AIBU - Keir Starmer's ok - getting rid of him wouldn't help Labour

https://pledgeprogress.co.uk

p10 of manifesto
https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Labour-Party-manifesto-2024.pdf

Delivery economic stability
Cut waiting list times
launch a new border security command
Set up Great British Energy
Recruit 6500 teachers

P23
 Deliver economic stability with tough spending rules
 A new partnership with business to boost growth everywhere
 A National Wealth Fund to invest in jobs
 Planning reform to build 1.5 million new homes
 Devolution of power across England
 A New Deal for Working People

P47
 Set up Great British Energy to cut bills for good
 Energy independence from dictators like Putin
 650,000 new high-quality jobs
 Warmer homes to slash fuel poverty
 Water companies forced to clean up our rivers

P61
 Crack down on antisocial behaviour with more neighbourhood police
 Tough new penalties for offenders
 A plan to get knives off our streets
 A specialist rape unit in every police force
 A new network of Young Futures hubs

P75
 Recruit 6,500 new expert teachers in key subjects
 3,000 new primary school-based nurseries
 Free breakfast clubs in every primary school
 A modern curriculum so young people are ready for work and life
 High-quality apprenticeships and specialist technical colleges

P91
 Cut NHS waiting times with 40,000 more appointments every week
 Double the number of cancer scanners
 A new Dentistry Rescue Plan
 8,500 additional mental health staff
 Return of the family doctor

P105
 A new Ethics and Integrity Commission
 Modernise the House of Commons
 Immediate reform of the House of Lords
 A reset between Westminster and Holyrood, Cardiff Bay, and Stormont
 Votes at 16

P115
 An unshakeable commitment to NATO and our nuclear deterrent
 Standing up for our armed forces and veterans
 New trade agreements
 Britain leading a Clean Power Alliance
 Modernise international development

Is there a labourite in the house who'll go through and say what they've done for each point?

(I can see the standing up for armed forces above and instantly am reminded of: While Keir did not directly prosecute soldiers, the case he led helped establish that Human Rights law applied to soldiers in Iraq, leading to extensive investigations and criticism from veterans)

He seems a decent person - no scandals attached to him that I am aware of. Why do you think he isn't ok? (him as a person not Labour generally).

Thank you - I'm not a Labour member (floating voter) but I did vote for them at the last General election so have been a bit disappointed with their performance.

Having said that, I don't know that I really expected they would be able to make any big improvements quickly after so many years of Tory underinvestment.

I take your point about taking away the pensioners heating allowance, that was unexpected in a Labour government. However, I sense a lot of resentment from younger voters towards older people in society and Labour's voting base does tend to be younger than the Torys. So maybe Labour didn't think it would be too contentious to target pensioners that were not on benefits (those on benefits would still have got the heating allowance).

Anyway, Labour did make a mistake there and again trying to cut the welfare bill - though if Conservatives or Reform get in they would almost definitely do that so to my mind, anyone concerned about that would still be better off voting Labour.

Yes the lack of charisma doesn't help, his somewhat robotic delivery makes him easy to mock.

But - I do think that behind the scenes he and his party and doing good things and he made the right call with a big decision recently by not getting the UK too involved in the Iran war.

He's cautious and has an obsession with doing things by the book - probably because of his legal background. There have been times I wished he would be more proactive - such as prescribing the IRGC as a terrorist organisation faster, in line with the rest of Europe.

BUT - all leaders do things that can be criticised. Overall, I don't see how it will help the Labour party to replace him at this point.

I am so split about this
He is very uncharismatic and a good leader should have charisma. He is also lacking a a strong vision, hence everything seems directionless.
They are bringing around some quite significant improvements to the country, but obviously the press, predominantly right wing in this country, are ignoring all of that.

I do feel it's a bit now, or never to allow time for a new leader to bed in.

I voted for them, but to be honest, I don’t think any of them are much good.

Starmer’s more middle manager than leader, but if he had the right people around him, it wouldn’t matter too much.

The MPs are panicking because the council elections have shown them what way the wind is blowing politically, and they’re fearful of being out of work in a couple of years.

I hope Starmer has a big reshuffle (predicted anyway) to try and improve the whole thing. 🤷‍♀️

‘Up north’ where exactly? Labour lost a lot of seats in Manchester but they’ve held the majority in most councils.

But he’s not conviction led. Thats his big problem. He flails changing his position depending on what he thinks is most popular. He says women have penises ( which no one will have thought he truly believes), until he thinks that’s not popular now when he trumpets in parliament that labour protects single sex spaces, before going quiet again when there is more backlash than he expected. He’s managed to piss off both sides of opinion on the ME by his contrary positioning. he cuts welfare, then doesn’t. He is weak and without conviction. Who knows what he actually believes on anything.

People actually respect clear ,strong leaders who take positions they genuinely believe are in the best interests of the country, even when those positions will cause them to be unpopular with some major groups. KS is not that conviction politician.

Not quite always been like that. I remember when Tony Blair & "new Labour" was first in power there was a real sense of optimism in the air and even the media gave them an easy time for a while.

That has been lacking for a long time now!

I am with you on desperately not wanting a leadership change. Stability is needed more than anything else.

I saw a Labour spokesperson yesterday explain they need to create a coalition at the centre to win votes from the left and right but it doesn't feel like that's what they're doing. I imagine I'm the kind of voter they want- my instincts lean left but I generally vote centre-left. I've previously been a Labour party member. However, I see them dismissing appealing to Green voters because that would be too extreme, while chasing hard after reform loudest voters. I'm never going to vote for a party that pretends climate change isn't an issue, sound-bites that SEN is overdiagnosed or talks about stopping the boats and describes asylum seekers as illegal immigrants rather than having a proper grown up conversation about the negative impacts of immigration and how we tackle these.

Reform voters are never going to be won over by attempts to implement Reform policies because the reality of delivering these things is very different to radical soundbites.

They need a rational Labour plan and narrative. I don't want to see election campaigns fought by smear campaigns, I want them to deserve to win.

He should stay on while the newly elected Greens and Reform use the time before the next GE to fuck up royally, as they almost certainly will.

Then, shortly before the next GE, Labour should roll out a shiny new leader who will energise the backbenchers, promise to put past mistakes behind them and generally get the party back on track.

At least that's what I'm hoping for

I am so disillusioned by politics these days. Every day there is another scandal, another member of a party trying to oust their leader, another billionaire donor with an ulterior motive sponsoring a political party, politicians branding rhetoric that bares no relation to the actual numbers / problems and totally ignores lots of real issues. And it feels like we are in a slow motion car crash. I don't know what the solution is and I certainly don't feel that any of our politicians have a handle on the bigger picture, they are all too busy squabling over who's the leader. It's like Lord of the Flies.