AIBU - Keir Starmer's ok - getting rid of him wouldn't help Labour

It isn't them not knowing how to fix it, it is that they are all driven by ideology and have no idea why, they are unable to identify experts who do, as even attending briefings or getting people around the table to discuss possible solutions means they would be shunned by their own people. Because the understanding is that you do not talk to people not on your side. And the only people on their side are also ideologically driven.

They are completely underpinned by their union and activist backers and do what they are told to do.

Unfortunately Wes used to be on a group that was dedicated to kicking women out of the Labour Party just because they had once expressed that they knew the dfferencce between man and women. He is no friend of any woman.

I think we will continue to ask various questions about this subject. To widen it a bit again - for perspective rather than being just in a groove - on many Mumsnet threads there seemed to be huge dislike for Polanski. However, the Greens have won many seats at the elections.

It is important for this wider discussion not to be shut down. 😀

Your best bet is to just listen and read stuff, not on mn pretty much, but if you see someone being shouted down re Starmer views it’s probably close.

There’s a good journo quote from the coverage elections aren’t earthquakes they’re aftershocks. Meaning voters decided much earlier and the day is just reflecting those choices.

Having picked up commentary neither the results nor the reasons coming in are a surprise.

Just be more open to what people are saying and you’ll find out the why.

No we get that. We are asking WHY there is a deep loathing?
And to be fair, many people have given their reasons and we’ve learnt a lot.

To me, it’s a bit like the blue dress/gold dress thing. I agree with @Twiglets1 and think he’s a good, sensible, well meaning PM so I am genuinely trying, like she is to understand the deep loathing for him.

Well yes exactly his lack of charisma was known, which is why I said it’s not that.

There’s still a deep loathing there, and it’s that part you are missing.

I’m not sure about the ‘we’ part in this, some are still blaming the media, guilt over shifting to Reform, or other stuff.

The best way to understand why is to just read posts on it, here or elsewhere as mn is quite pro Starmer.

If the party can accept there is a leader problem they can decide what to do. It still might be ok nothing, we’ll have to live with that for various reasons. Just don’t ignore the feedback from the electorate.

Many did. But he also was very different to the current PM. Plus happy to grow the private sector unlike now.

That is a factor, and a new leader might not resolve it. But really all that needs to happen for some of the questions is to turn on the radio - Times in particular.

All this stuff is being discussed, with people who were talking to the electorate directly. Loathing of Starmer came up repeatedly. It’s now up to Labour to decide what to do about that.

As for moving left or right with policy, neither will help much as votes are being shed in both directions.

It is fucking ridiculous. The Mandelson business hasn’t gone away, the other crony Matthew Doyle’s friendship with another convicted pedo (who had been a Labour councillor🙄) was back in the headlines again a few weeks ago. What’s Starmer gone and done? Given Harperson a job. Nice one. Keir. Just continue to fan the flames of Labour being the pedophile apologists party.

I remember when the whole links to Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE) issue blew up. I was initially prepared to give Harman the benefit of the doubt but her Newsnight interview with Laura Kuenssberg changed that. Harman didn’t give a satisfactory account to questions Laura K asked. Then more details emerged.
It all sounded far too cosy a relationship with PIE when Harman had been working for what is now called Liberty.

Another ridiculous aspect to Harman and Brown getting roles is they were both at the helm when Labour lost the 2010 election and went into Opposition for 14 years. So you appoint those 2 just after the calamitous election results yesterday! It’s beyond.

100% agree with you.

It also doesn't help that the UK has a strong right-leaning media (owned by multimillionaires/billionaires - what a surprise) who have not reported on all that Labour have achieved.

As others have said, Labour were handed a country in distress, thanks to repeated voting for Conservatives. It is not possible to change that around in a short time-frame. Sadly I don't think it's possible in a medium time-frame for the whole nation.

Keir lacks charisma (possibly more so now that before!), but he is steady and not rudderless, which England needs. I wish he'd directly address people's concerns better. I can't see how he isn't for the chop, but it's not going to improve anything.

His judgement is terrible, he has the charisma of a mouldy flannel, he sounds awful… he’s not in control

Wes Streeting I love
Andy Burnham just no

@Twiglets1they are fucking idiotic and any MP that thinks like that is self serving and doesn’t give a shit about the electorate! And any leftie calling for Starmer’s resignation is the same and might as well defect to the god awful Green Party or the utter shite that is Your Party!

Labour moving further to the left won't pick up disaffected Reform voters. Tony Blair was successful because he was left of centre. Even I voted for him and I'm centre right!

@MulberryBrandyi totally agree. This is not a Starmer problem. Trouble is Labour traditionalists don’t like him because he had attempted to help out middle earners and kickstart the economy! But the back benchers didn’t like that, so we got U Turn after U Turn. Instead of sorting out the welfare system we’re giving even more towards it, leaving a bitter taste in middle earners mouths. I blame the back benchers for this mess and that utter idiot Catherine West piping up yesterday to send the country into more chaos. But unfortunately Starmer is the fall guy. The majority of us want stability and to kick start the economy, not to be constantly told more hand outs are coming at the expensive of small businesses and hard working middle earners! Most people just want more money in their pockets.

Totally agree! And then some tit of a back bencher, who obviously hasn’t got a clue about the mood of the country or what we’re all pissed off about is trying to kickstart a leadership contest! To be honest it’s the Labour backbenchers that’s I’m more pissed off with than Starmer himself!