To think it’s probably just as hard to end the marriage as to stay in it

I just think when it’s time you know.

I’m going through a divorce now. 20 years married 25 together. I’ve never really been happy with him, I always knew it had to end.

At least after you go through all the hard work selling the house etc you can build the life you want for the rest of your days

I really sympathise with you and was wrapped up in a similar dilemma for many years myself. My children were older, so I appreciate it's different, but I did leave and do feel it was the right decision. Tbh I wish I'd ended it sooner, when they were younger.

In many ways my life was easier before I left, except that it was also extremely stressful and frustrating. Things are tough financially for me now, and also I live with extra stressors that were not predictable. My ex is easier to deal with as an ex than he was as a cohabiting partner, and I sometimes tend to forget how infuriating things were on a daily basis. However, what I do feel, for sure, is that leaving was better for the kids. Our set up was really quite dysfunctional, more than I really appreciated when I was in it, and its tentacles spread into our respective and joint relationships with our children themselves.

What tipped the balance for me was something one of my children said to me about the joint dynamics of how we reacted to his (DS's) probems/issues, because it made me realise it was always me who did the heavy lifting as a parent, and DP kind of tagged along, hiding behind me. I'm not saying my parenting was always right (far from it, I'm sure) but DP was parenting by proxy, out of laziness and a desire to be the 'nice guy' and the kids did feel the impact of that. Since we split, he's been forced to do his own parenting and the kids have a more authentic relationship with each of us, which has been much healthier. Your situation may be entirely different, but if mine has any resonance at all then I hope it helps you in your dilemma. x

Being a single mother is so much better than being angry and resentful all the time! Living in a tiny flat where I'm not being treated with disrespect is amazing. Feeling resentful all the time and living with someone who doesn't like you eats up your soul. In my case, I had to decide between a bad choice (leaving with no job and no money) and a terrible one (staying). BUT it took me years to be ready for that. You have to do it when YOU are ready because no one will save you on the other side.

selling the house
moving school / nursery
then in full time childcare / wraparound care (I know a lot of children do)
me still wrung out and burned out
him having them part of the week

You can avoid the first three by staying put.
Solve the last two by giving yourself time elsewhere. Chunks of time. Ditch any guilt. The whiner will have to step up and might learn to appreciate you.

Either way I can’t do anything straightaway.

You need a coping strategy now.

Absolutely this. I am so much happier now. Honestly it's easier just doing everything myself as opposed to doing everything myself anyway AND having to pick up after a man child who would promise help and then not actually follow through with it.

You’re not wrong.

I haven’t been “happy” in my marriage for about 15 years. But he’s not bad enough that I think it’s worth the upheaval of a divorce, even though our kids have grown up.

We rub along fine as housemates, there’s just no intimacy and quite a lot of resentment has built up over the years. If you asked him he would say we are fine, because he doesn’t think that deeply about stuff (I wish I didn’t)

I think in your situation, as he’s not abusive, I would make plans for the future. Just knowing that you will leave when the time is right will be some light relief for you. I would make notes in my phone about all the things I need to do, money to put aside, etc for the future. I knew someone once who, on the outside I assumed was happily married, but she told me one day she was ‘squirrelling’ money away to leave her H in the future (two young kids) and was retraining for a better future career for when that time came. I haven’t seen her since but I know they did end up getting divorced.

I don't think you're being unreasonable to question this. You're working, you've got young kids, time and money are probably tighter than they were previously. It is the hard yards, as my mum says.
Things will likely get easier as the kids get older, but don't dismiss your feelings. Early motherhood is a time of such intense personal growth and if you've outgrown your partner, then you don't have to stay forever.
Give yourself time and grace, make a plan of how you'd manage without him and see how feasible it is financially (because for most of us, finances are the real kicker) and take your time.

Have you tried laying it on the line? Say you are not happy with how things are and you cannot see how the marriage can last under the current conditions. How would he feel about splitting up? How would he see child care being organised? What might the financial implications be?

If you present him with these very real options and the awareness that all this is in your mind, might he feel able to cooperate with marriage counselling?

Whiny and petulant? How limp, selfish and calculating of him. If you decide to stay, can you specify some situations so we can suggest strategies for you?

Very difficult having young children and being in that situation. I think you’re right often there is pros and cons for both staying together and leaving. You have to weigh up what works for you. For me the resentment actually made me ill and that’s a real thing! So do think about your health also. And yes the children will pick up on it. I do more parenting than my ex for sure but my home is much calmer atmosphere and I no longer get worked up or resentful about household stuff because he isn’t here making my life more difficult! But yes like others say may be easier when your children are slightly older but think about your health also in the meantime

We separated from a similar relationship when DD was 6, did the progressive 50:50 shared parenting. Now at 17 DD has lots of emotional issues, self harms, eating disorder, won’t feel her feelings, all of this has roots in early childhood so I can’t help but feel separation at such a young age wasn’t worth it. And the fact I was primary carer and suddenly she was with me much less. I think being over 7/8 at least could have been better. Yes we can never know. One counsellor said that whether we separated or stayed together we would have to work on ourselves individually to deal with our own issues, I found that to be true.

I left when my children were 2 and 5 and it was extremely difficult. I had no family support and no friend who were able to help out. If I could do it all again, I'd wait until they were both in school.

It's very hard to leave a marriage. It takes strength and courage. Staying requires patience, resilience and fortitude.
I think you'll know when it's bad enough that you absolutely have to leave. I don't think you're quite there if you're still weighing things up.
From my own experience, bringing up children alone was hard. I was lonely, depressed and poor for years. Do I regret it? Not for a second. It was far better than the alternative. And my now adult children feel they had a good childhood and we're very close.

I couldn’t disagree more with this. I have never met anyone yet whose life is worse after divorcing a lazy, shit man.

And I think the earlier the divorce, the better. Splitting when they are small will be far easier than waiting until they are teenagers and the impact on them will be more the older they are.

I separated from my husband when DD was four and it was difficult but I am now in a far better place than I was when we were together.

It’s awful both ways - staying is the boiling frog, leaving is like ripping your throat out. But my marriage was abusive, so my divorce was very hard as my ex was mean, spiteful and vindictive. But the law is now fairer on women than it used to be.

But now I’m free and it was all worth it. So absolutely worth it!

I don’t think you can ever come back from this level of resentment. My advice, know that as soon as life gets easier and the children are older - you will leave. So make everything you do from this day forth lead you one day to be able to leave.

Get your support network, sort the money, know the facts and a million other things. Do it surely and slowly. Then when it happens, you will be halfway there and it won’t seem so intimidating.

Dont think you can endure. I thought I could, until I couldn’t. But I had made no plans and had allowed myself become isolated and distanced from all the financial decisions.

My adult child is now my biggest support and cheerleader.

Can you see a way back, OP- is there any chance he'd improve and your marriage would recver?

So what has he said when you’ve addressed his laziness with him? Because if you’re not being supported by when you ask for it and it’s making you’re life miserable then he IS cruel.

Getting divorced is expensive, stressful and exhausting.
Raising small kids is stressful and exhausting and puts strain on any marriage.

Good relationships are based on skills

What have you done specifically to improve your relationship skills?

Watch John Gottman on Making Marriage Work.

And yes, it’s almost always easier to stay, it’s just not happier.

I think there are many women in this situation, where their DH is very hard to live with but it’s not so bad that you feel you need to leave immediately. Often the issues were always there, but children bring them sharply into focus suddenly you have to run a tight ship or nothing gets done. One person (mummy) ends up carrying the mental load of cleaning, tidying, organising, planning and even trying to keep the spark alive. It is so draining.

The obvious questions are:
In what way is he lazy?
Have you spoken to him clearly about it?
What is he like as a father?

I also think a lot depends on the atmosphere between you now. Are you basically rubbing along alright day to day, even if you’re frustrated, or is the resentment really seething underneath? Children absolutely pick up on tension and animosity, even when parents think they’re hiding it well.

it is obviously easier to stay if you can. But only you can really know whether things could improve with honest conversations and change.

I’d be equally lazy and obtuse, making sure it affected him, until he effected a change. I know this is cynical but direct nagging won’t work. A taste of his own medicine/hold the mirror up to him approach.

It doesn’t matter when you decide to end it, it will be hard for a while.
however, in own experience and the anecdotal experience of my friends, yes, it’s then much much better, if the reasons for your unhappiness are what you say they are.

so, I would always urge anyone unhappy in a relationship to get out. Yes, initially - it’s hellish. But if you know at some point you are going to leave, do it now and enjoy the good side sooner rather than later. It might be awful - but you are making progress towards the life you want, rather than stagnating and being resentful in the life you are living in.