Employer refusing flexibility after child’s surgery. What would you do?

If it is one knee he should be up and about on the day of his surgery with crutches. He will be encouraged to stay mobile from the very beginning so he wont be in bed needing everything within reach. He will be given physio before leaving the hospital and will be expected to do this at home to stop the joint getting stiff. Going to the bathroom himself will happen before he leaves hospital. He should be able to get around the house without any difficulty syraight away. You just have to think practically. So eg put a packed lunch in the fridge in a bag so he can loop it over his arm to walk on the crutches. Make a large travel mug of tea or coffee if he likes hot drinks and leave it within reach. Most knee reconstructions will be weight bearing immediately with the help of crutches. Within a week probably down to one crutch around the house.
He wont need any nursing and should be able to get himself up and dressed pretty much from the off. The only thing I would caution is making sure someone is in the house with him when showering for the first week or so.

Tbh I hadn’t massively thought about it but once I discovered there was nothing, with hindsight I considered it might be the same as sick leave - up to 5 working days. Or at the very least 2 days to cover his actual surgery day plus the day after - for transporting him home and getting him settled.

I never have time off sick. In my job I am allowed 5 working days per year (in my contract) and have never had more than 1 possibly 2 days sick leave a year. So I am a proven dependable and reliable member of staff.

Like I said I am fortunate I can afford to take a degree of time off unpaid due to savings and I’ve saved 7.5 days annual leave for him. Completely playing it by ear though. I have the option to have WFH days too though I do appreciate ‘nursing’ cannot be part of my working day hence annual leave if required - possibly a week of afternoons off on leave, leaving him in bed all morning whilst I work. He’s having 1 knee done so hopefully will be at least mobile enough to get to the bathroom within a week.

Is it bothering or just one knee? If one then he will be up and about on crutches straight away.

How much paid dependents' leave were you hoping for @Forestgreenblue ? My employer has fantastic T&Cs but they'd only do a day or two max of paid dependents' leave. It's nice to have but I wouldn't be furious to miss out on it. They are super flexible in other ways to help avoid people having to resort to unpaid leave though. Maybe your employer is not.

Have you tried asking for parental leave? They can only delay this for 6 mths (although I appreciate that may mean it still isn't helpful) but it may just be red tape making them say no to dependents leave which is based on the goodwill of the employer, and if they say yes then people might complain if they don't get the same, whereas parental leave is a statutory right.

No advice I’m afraid OP! I will be in a similar position later this year when DS 16 has reconstructive knee surgery. I have already been told that I cannot have dependents leave and this would need to be managed by annual leave. I’m pretty furious about it too but not enough to stir up an issue with work.

I informed them out of courtesy and tbh, I did think they would offer a short period of paid dependents leave. Obviously like any surgical recovery you never do know how long a dependent will require help.

My plan is to book annual leave as much as I can. I can mercifully afford to take a degree of unpaid leave if I really have to (I have savings) and the rest of the time if I simply do have to go to meetings (I’m a senior regional manager), DS will be left with a mini fridge by his bed with food/drinks and, dare I say it, something to pee in if he requires - which I do appreciate is a task logistically and biologically easier with a male than female child.

As I've said before, no one typically wants a relative of the opposite sex helping them to the toilet, but needs must.

I've been the carer before for a male relative. It wasn't what either of us wanted, but there were no other options and we were family, so we just got on with it.

Sympathy for the DD cannot trump the family losing one income.

But did you live with 2 other adults who could help you or do you live alone?

As far as the hospital is concerned DD was safe to discharge because her parents could look after her. Its not their problem that mum works and DD doesn't want dad helping. There are 2 able carers in the household.

Adult nappy may need to be used in case, it's not nice and she may not like it but it's a temporary measure until she's more mobile.

I think you know you are being unreasonable. Why should your employer help when it’s to do with your child rather than you as such and I say this with so much care that I do not want you to be angry or upset. I think you do understand. A business is a business. There are insurances you can take out for things that cover eventualities.

If it’s likely to be long term then mum may be better leaving work and being a carer and reapply for a job once she’s better.
Op will know if she’s likely to get another similar role easily in future. Job market locally, her qualifications and experience, whether she’s prepared to work ft etc. The staff in our village preschool have been there years for example as it’s a nice place to work, on doorstep and pt. If they left they’d be able to get another childcare job but probably a commute by car to a nearby town and a big commercial nursery with 8-6 hours etc.
It sounds like Op may be similar set up living very close to work to be able to nip back at lunch but there comes a point where if you aren’t able to do the role paid for you need to step away.

Her mum loses her job then.

Or her mum does 3 hours, goes home for lunch and then does another 3 hours, which doesn’t seem any different to me than working 3 hours then going home, but OP won’t acknowledge, for some reason

The mums own suggestion has her leaving the girl for over 3 hours each morning.
If she can be left for that time then I don’t see how it’s different if op leaves her 2 x 3 hour stretches in 1 day. Op hasn’t returned to explain.
Again depends how much care needs - but if she can be sat on loo and left to it no reason why dad can’t lift her and leave room whilst she actually goes - easy clothing like a nightie or skirt, grab rails etc may assist. If mum couldn’t physically lift her then there would be no choice.

If the alternative is her mum losing her job, she's potentially not going to have a choice.

A 15 year old girl isn't going to want her dad taking her to the toilet!

I'm really shocked at the vote. You have to put your daughter first - what else can she do? This kind of surgery could have lifelong impact if she doesn't heal properly (if that's even possible after such surgery).

But you might have to take unpaid leave - your employer doesn't have to pay you if you've exhausted all paid options, but they should support you any way they can, such as by unpaid leave and allowing you to take your holiday now, and I would imagine they can't sack you because it might contravene equality laws around parenthood - I'm not sure, so your union should advise.

Exactly - people seem to be missing the fact that OP's solution doesn't actually make things any better for her DD

But in the OP's scenario of working mornings or the employer's scenario of popping home at lunchtime, DD still has to wait 3h + for her mum to get back.

She could wear TENA pants as a back up and that might well provide the security not to need them.

It isn't ideal, of course it isn't, but there's not a scenario here where OP's employer makes allowances ad infinitum.

Exactly. If i was told that i couldn't go to the toilet for 4 hours i would be more likely to really need it. It wouldn't matter how much i had to drink. I also cannot concentrate on anything once i am desperate for the toilet. I couldn't even focus on my favourite book.

The DD won’t accept help from anyone except mum - this isn’t a case of the DH refusing to help.

The dh needs to help !!!

This with a DH issue or a DD MH issue.

It's obviously distressing and of course you want to be there for he but you Have A Job for me which you are p a i d. This is why women don't last in the workforce and end up reliant on a male.

What a tough situation OP.

I am not sure how much more your employer can do as it’s a role where you are on site and they have ratios to think of.

Could another female relative or family friend help out?

If you quit how easily can you find another job?

Same. After double knee surgery I wasn’t allowed to be discharged until I showed I was able to get to the loo on my own.

I am surprised at this as when I was in a similar position of being completely immobile following an operation that involved both legs, I wasn't allowed home from hospital until I could safely make it to a loo and back. Even though I asked to be discharged, they insisted that I passed their OT tests before they let me go. I know the NHS is in dire straights now, but sending a patient home in this condition doesn't sound right to me but perhaps it is different when young children are involved.

So I juggle 25hrs a week around pretty intense care for my husband who needs help with all toileting, catheterisation, very limited mobility, multiple other needs. I have a statutory approved one half day to WFH (I realise that won't work for you) but had to fight for that. I'm his only and registered carer but I also wanted and needed to work so had to be reasonable with what my employer would flex around. I appreciate yours may be a more short term situation but if you had already taken significant time off in the last few months I don't think they are being completely unreasonable here with your having a 15hr contract. I appreciate your daughter is a child but equally you will have to take account of the fact that they need you at work. I had two bereavements in the last 12 months too and to work around that and my husband I had to switch days, make hours up, to still be able to meet my commitments to everyone including my job. Its tough but at the end of the day they can only be so accommodating when a role needs to be fulfilled. Is there no other female relative that could maybe help out with the personal care while you're at work?