To think there will be many more disabled adults in 20 years?

That's not what people have voted for - they're in agreement with OP about the fact that there will be more disabled adults in 20 years time and about the fact that we need to work out how to provide for their needs.

What are you talking about where talking about disabilities not parenting

This may be true… I don't know, but I do know that OPs premise was right that something has to give.

We have the highest tax burden ever , we have more people needing support than making net contributions to the system.
We have had 20 years of wage stagnation, moving from a high wage economy to a low wage economy. We have a cost of living crisis, where millions are struggling to afford to maintain their living standards.
We have an economy that is vulnerable due to vast debt burdens and enormous interest payments to service that (maybe more than Greece).
Reeves has taxed jobs much more, raised min wage, business rates through the roof, utilities costs (which attract tax) are also thought the roof. All of these contribute to the jobs market being decimated.
Unfortunately this will mean a that where employers may take on more staff, they will choose those less ‘risky’ and this will unfortunately mean that those who require additional support or are less experienced will likely lose out.

Asking questions early , establishing root causes and addressing them , and having honest debates about what can be done is long overdue, but the answer cannot always be more tax this and more tax that.

All the people saying "goady thread"

Look at the vote. 80 20. People have had enough. If you don't recognise how angry people are becoming about the amount spent on this & accept a change is coming, you are in line for a shock.

A fair whack of mental health difficulties in adults come from harsh parenting, attachment issues, adverse childhood experiences with Neurodivergent people disproportionately effected.
.parents nowadays try to parent more gently and in neuroaffirming ways instead of beating the autism out of kids like previous generations.

Most psychologists and psychiatrists I know are of the opinion mental health in future generations will improve and more people will meaningfully co tribute to society.

But I bet you're also someone who loves a thread to moan about people not 'disciplining' their kids like your generation did.

Because the parenting of previous generations worked out so well for long term wellbeing.

Thing is autism is genetic, many people go undiagnosed and have kids and it isn’t till their children are diagnosed do they reliese that they too are on the spectrum and round and round the roundabout we go.

Well, we were told that all this unprecedented immigration would solve that problem.

And it may have, if we hadn't also allowed low paid immigrants to bring their elderly relatives and dependants along too.

We made the problem worse ourselves.

Thank you but my point is that you shouldn’t be judging others from the outside. My dd doesn’t present as though she is particularly impacted by being autistic when you meet her at a superficial level because she is intelligent and masks well. No one outside the family, and even some within the family, can comprehend fully the struggles that she encounters and the obstacles she has to navigate. They don’t for example see her largely confined to her room for eight weeks during every summer student vacation which enables her to endure term time.

An example from last month is that she couldn’t tolerate the noise of an A & E department so left without getting antibiotics for a serious UTI while away at university and had to be then admitted in to a hospital ward for a more serious kidney infection which she tolerated because a kind nurse put her in a side ward and then she was discharged in to my care earlier than was medically safe but happily it worked out ok. I cite this example because so often a simple accommodation for neurodivergent patients, or those with disabilities, such as a quiet room in an A&E department, could save the NHS and the state much more money further on.

There are countless examples of this in the education system too where a simple accommodation for a child with SEN which is adopted swiftly and effectively is so much better for them AND can save the tax-payer thousands of pounds at a future date. Therefore we need more and earlier interventions, not fewer.

The people you say who are doing nothing supposedly from choice could be in that situation because their parents didn’t have the means to take time off work and support them through years of school refusal in the absence of help from the state, or their family circumstances did not allow them to navigate the frankly horrendous application process which meant they were not entitled to a school place in an appropriate setting or a taxi to get them there and back and they are now stuck without qualifications,

Alternatively we (ie the state) could provide a bedroom each and shared kitchens and bathrooms.
If you can’t afford to pay for a flat to yourself, why should the state provide it?
DD working full time can only afford to rent a flat share, why should an adult who is not providing for himself, but relying on others for his needs, deserve more?

@29000seconds That generation you seem so keen to deprive of their pensions - for which most worked 50 years (15-65)....

It is worth pointing out that compulsory private pensions were not introduced until 2018, and many people of that generation have nothing to live on but the state pension. That was the social contract they signed up to. Yes there were some great work pensions - some public sector, M&S, IBM etc, but the vast majority of workers in small companies did not get a works pension at all. There was also no minimum wage, no maternity pay, no parental leave.

They are not all wealthy - some are and pay tax on their income like everyone else, but the majority are not.

My opinion is the main issue is lack of community. We don't go to church (I don't believe fyi) anymore, we don't watch the same things on TV at the same time anymore, we don't chat whilst waiting anymore we just stare at phones, I don't think there's the same communities associated with pubs like there was when was a child, there don't seem to be youth clubs either.

Edited to add children are not allowed to do anything by themselves until a really old age these days either. Traffic is a major reason for this.

Your post is full of ageist nonsense.

The Elderly (excepting those on benefits) are the ones who have funded the system through their taxes through 40 years of working life, whereas those that haven't worked have contributed / are contributing nothing.

Without working people, there would be no hand outs to give out.

Then how do the moderately disabled eat? I know 6 moderately disabled people on disability benefits and none could hold down any sort of job on account of fluctuating symptoms/crashes/unpredictability or just low daily functionality. Some have tried self-employment but the working conditions were not actually compatible with a moderate disability, like virtually all jobs. Most have costs associated with their conditions that are not insignificant (things that stop them becoming more disabled or basics like medications they can't get through the NHS). All worked for many years or decades through significant illness until they couldn't any more apart from one who was in good health and worked full time until he had a major disabling (physical) health event that changed his life over night. Some have almost no family support, others have significant support but still end up in a very financially precarious situation due to disability benefits being so much lower than minimum wage where family support exists at all.

FYI many conditions that were considered severe enough for disability benefit in the 80s are no longer considered severe enough today - eg many people with MS have lost their disability benefits when a higher proportion would have qualified in the 80s when conditions were actually less rigorous. Several MS charities have documented this and it has lead to a greater number of hospital visits (A&E and GPs) etc and increased costs to the health system in other ways.

I've got a lifelong disability (physical) and when I grew up in the 80's and 90's I was expected to 'get on with it' which looking back now was appalling and impacted my quality of life severely. My daughter was born with the same (genetic) disability and has been given more more support and is growing up with much higher self esteem and quality of life than I did. I'm so pleased we have moved on as a society. I fully expect that with the support my daughter will be a fully functional member of society when she grows up (currently 9)

I think parents know their children's temperaments & interests best, and could do a lot more to help their dcs launch into employment.

When my ds was 15 I suggested various things that would make him more employable for part time weekend work. I didn't nag, just made suggestions and offered to help him achieve them.
When he was 16 he decided he wanted to qualify as a pool lifeguard so I paid for the training course. He passed at 16y7m. Then I helped with his cv, made a list of every gym, leisure centre and private school with a pool within 10 miles and helped him send out applications, then checked with receptions every weekend if there were any vacancies. He got a job as he turned 17. A year later his confidence has improved hugely, he enjoys his job, has customer service experience, he will have a reference, and a way to earn money at uni. But more, he now believes a future is possible. He believes in himself.

I think too many people forget that teens are not adults and they still need support and guidance, and a bit of hand holding.

I think it depends on the nature of the disability or condition the young person has.

Some young people will simply never be able to live or work independently, due to physical disability, mental disability or both. Those people will need state support, and are likely never to be net contributors to the tax system, but only a truly inhumane country would withdraw support on that basis.

I also think there are lots of parents of children who fall into this category who worry about what will happen when they themselves are unable to care for their children anymore. They don’t seem to have much faith in the care system, so want to keep their children out of it for as
long as possible, probably saving the state a lot of money at the same time.

There will also be children who are able to contribute but may require reasonable adjustments in order to do so. The extent to which it’s possible for an employer to meet those adjustments will be a matter for them, subject to their need to comply with with disability legislation. Some may also be able to work in a self-employed capacity, depending on the nature of the work.

I agree it’s a difficult situation because it doesn’t seem obvious where the tax revenue will come from to pay PIP or whatever replaces it in the future for adults with disabilities, unless a wealth tax or something similar is brought in. The government is already in huge amounts of debt so borrowing more doesn’t seem to be a sensible option.

That said, if we assume that there have always been people with ND, it’s just that nowadays we are more able to diagnose and support ND people (which I’ve read a lot on here), then I suppose the fact that historically at least some of those people were able to work seems to bode well, but obviously we cant know what jobs they were doing or if those jobs or their counterparts exist now.

I just hope this doesn’t all become irrelevant because the welfare state simply collapses due to the money running out.

Hear hear to this! 💐

This. The people who think the state can or should support an infinite number of non working adults are mad. The numbers don't work.

We have to scale back definitions of what we consider "disabled" to something more like what it would have been in the 80s. Only the severely disabled, those with brain damage, learning disabilities, genetic disorders that affect development, cerebral palsy etc.

I agree. How often do we hear these days " I/he/she can't do x, y or z because of their 'anxiety'?" Not only is it often used as a get out of jail free card but makes a mockery of the few people with actual memtal health issues. More money needs to be spent on the health system to either fix these issues and/or accurately diagnose. The NHS is on its knees and mental health in particular is particularly bad. A 12 month waiting list to see a "counsellor" for 6 x 50 minute sessions of CBT that someone trained online for during Covid is an absolute joke! Where are the proper well-qualified therapists/psychologists/psychiatrists? That's what we need more of and we need some sort of drive/incentive to encourage people into this line of work. Sadly to receive quality mental health care these days you have to go Private and this shouldn't be the case.
I also think the rise in children with FAS is increasing/being diagnosed. And generally a lack of parental aspiration to push their children academically and the permissive nature of letting them have a "day off if they're not 'feeling it'" fails to prepare young people for the realities of work.
There's so much work that needs to be done, you wonder where to start....

Thank you. I'm tired of fighting for everything and getting crumbs. I'm even more tired tired of rich politicians talking about penalising people for disabilities and mental health problems that have been massively impacted by the system they've created.

My heart absolutely breaks for you lyamnotayam. I struggle seeing all the money the superwealthy throw at ridiculous things when there's this level of need out there.

I think a large part of the issue is that there is more knowledge so more people are diagnosed with certain disabilities. But there have been so many cuts that people's needs just aren't dealt with.

Regardless of disability, the lack of input and support from medical professionals creates a barrier to society and work in itself.

DD is nearly 13. She has a medical condition and doctors have known she has developmental delays, and have acknowledged an undiagnosed genetic condition since she was a baby. She got support from portage to work on development - thats a 0-3 service so naturally stopped. She got SEND support in her private nursery. That stopped when she went to school and they decided her SEND magically disappeared because there's no funding.

When DD was 8, OT refused schools referral twice and refused the referral from her Neurodevelopment consultant a further two times, until she rang them up and had words. A year on the waiting list for 1 half hour appointment and a 72 page printout of YouTube links.

She's had round after round of genetic testing over the last decade, but it's taken until DD was 11 to actually get a consultant to refer her to clinical genetics, despite every consultant she's ever had expressing that she has the features of some sort of syndrome. Within an hour the genetics consultant was 80% sure of what type of gene mutation DD has and has requested her DNA be re-analysed. If we'd been able to access clinical genetics when she was younger, and she'd been diagnosed more quickly, we would have also been able to get earlier diagnosis of her ASD, ADHD, learning needs and other Neurodevelopmental conditions as they're all part of her suspected syndrome.

It took until DD was in year 5 to get an EHCP, until year 7 for DD to be placed in specialist provision , which she then had to leave because the council had completely mismatched her needs to the school, and it's taken until year 8 to get her into an appropriate placement, where thankfully she's thriving and has been held back a year to make up for missing half of this academic year. For the record, DD had 50% attendance because she was assaulted to the point she needed X-rays, school refused to deal with it and the person who attacked her was in her class. Due to this and other incidents at her old school, DD has some real trauma, and her anxiety has worsened noticeably. She's been waiting over 6 months for specialist therapy with the CAMHS LD team.

DD is now in a resource base, but can no longer access the school nurse she's familiar with because she works in specialist schools and DD is in a specialist base in a mainstream school. But the SEND in mainstream nurses feel she's too complex for them, and DD won't talk to them because she has medical trauma and it took a year for her to trust the specialist school nurse.

DD also has a language disorder. Again, this wasn't diagnosed until she was 8 and she finally saw an educational psychologist who confirmed DDs speech was better than her understanding and processing was. DD was unable to access NHS Speech and Language interventions until she was 11.

Oh and to top it all of DDs EHCP is out of date, her needs have changed massively but a national shortage of Educational Psychologists means that she hasn't had an assessment since 2021, as she's "been seen" so isn't a priority. We can't update the EHCP without updating the report.

I've put hours and hours of work into researching, finding ways to support DD and we've put a huge focus on social and independence skills over the years. But I'm not a professional, and half the time it's been trial and error because I've had no guidance.

DDs old Paediatrician said that DD would have likely been able to close most gaps, had we been able to access the EHCP and early interventions I BEGGED the NHS and school for when she started formal education. And it absolutely breaks my heart to know that our failing systems have really affected her chances of "making it" in the world.

The sad thing is there are thousands of children like DD who have spent their entire lives being failed by cuts to the system. She's far from unique. And those failures in the system inevitably lead to a lack of life skills, education and qualifications which leads to a lack of employment.

ps I think you've misread the other poster - I don't think she's saying that she doesn't believe mental health issues are only found in developed countries although a great many people do seem to believe that. Apologies if I've got this wrong.

When one looks at how some of the the people on this site are raising their kids to be wary of everyone, cut people off for the most trivial reasons, and double check with mum before they take an ibuprofen, it's no surprise that mental health disabilities are skyrocketing. Parents micromanaging every aspect of their kid's life is a recipe for disaster.

It is not good for a child to be over-protected.

You think that causes mental health disability? (Not learning disability.)