To wonder how people who homeschool acquire the knowledge to do so?

@Leftrightmiddle

Do you not know that many many young people are being terribly failed by schools in the UK?
Children in schools learning absolutely nothing because mainstream schools can't meet needs.
Children suicidal because schools are causing them huge distress and trauma.
I know some amazing home educators who provide their children with an education that a school could never replicate.
I also know others who didn't set out to home Ed but did so because it was the only way to safeguard their child.
I don't think many parents would opt for school when the choice is school and dead child or home Ed and alive child.
Education is not as vital as wellbeing and health

I completely acknowledge this, which is why I went out of my way in my post to say that HE can be an extremely high quality education. And I recognise that a lot of children are being failed by school. I think it's entirely legitimate that a lot of people feel their children are better educated at home.

But the point you're missing is that currently there's no way for education authorities to distinguish between parents who are genuinely committed to providing a good education and those who for their own reasons just can't really be bothered with organising their lives enough to get their children into school. Good parents who are dealing with distressed children should be able to make that case to the LEA easily. But the fact that people can just opt out with no oversight whatsoever is a scandal.

@Leftrightmiddle

Do you not know that many many young people are being terribly failed by schools in the UK?
Children in schools learning absolutely nothing because mainstream schools can't meet needs.
Children suicidal because schools are causing them huge distress and trauma.
I know some amazing home educators who provide their children with an education that a school could never replicate.
I also know others who didn't set out to home Ed but did so because it was the only way to safeguard their child.
I don't think many parents would opt for school when the choice is school and dead child or home Ed and alive child.
Education is not as vital as wellbeing and health

I completely acknowledge this, which is why I went out of my way in my post to say that HE can be an extremely high quality education. And I recognise that a lot of children are being failed by school. I think it's entirely legitimate that a lot of people feel their children are better educated at home.

But the point you're missing is that currently there's no way for education authorities to distinguish between parents who are genuinely committed to providing a good education and those who for their own reasons just can't really be bothered with organising their lives enough to get their children into school. Good parents who are dealing with distressed children should be able to make that case to the LEA easily. But the fact that people can just opt out with no oversight whatsoever is a scandal.

Well the training isn't transferring to actual schools because it isn't working well for SEN pupils

I am a teacher myself and - I am pretty skilled at adapting but even so there are pupils in yr 8 that didn't grasp primary level maths

That is adaptive teaching. That is what we are trained to do - provide appropriate learning, pitch, addressing gaps for those that need more, providing extensions for those that have grasped it and can either move on or deepen their knowledge. Part of the extension is independent use and application of key concepts.

I’ve supported newly qualified teachers to unpick children’s learning and gaps to make sure the next steps are planned appropriately for the child.

That is adaptive teaching. That is what we are trained to do - provide appropriate learning, pitch, addressing gaps for those that need more, providing extensions for those that have grasped it and can either move on or deepen their knowledge. Part of the extension is independent use and application of key concepts.

I’ve supported newly qualified teachers to unpick children’s learning and gaps to make sure the next steps are planned appropriately for the child.

Yes I understand you can flex to their interests. But my point is that what DC is doing now is not something I'd ever consider so my home schooling them would be channeling them into my idea of what good topics were. I'm sure other people have the time to look more broadly but my fear if we did it is that we would skip over a host of topics because I didn't like them or I hadn't done them in the 90s.

What is provided in school.is only relevant if the child has the key mathematical concepts they need at that stage.
When a pupil hasn't grasped the key concepts - but the class is moving on to the next stage of learning they won't be able to fully access the next stage because the underpinning knowledge isn't secure.
You can't hold the whole class up and not progress through the curriculum for one child because the curriculum is so full you won't cover the curriculum if you have to spend 6 weeks on a concept that has been schemed to be covered in 3.

Yes I understand you can flex to their interests. But my point is that what DC is doing now is not something I'd ever consider so my home schooling them would be channeling them into my idea of what good topics were. I'm sure other people have the time to look more broadly but my fear if we did it is that we would skip over a host of topics because I didn't like them or I hadn't done them in the 90s.

Exactly this.
One of my kids was obsessed with the musical Six, so we ended up learning loads about Henry VIII, his wives, the Tudors etc.
In doing that, we did memorise some 'pub quiz' type historical facts of course, but really what they learned was about literacy, evaluating sources, change over time, creativity, morality, power, even sex education. We visited the theatre and palaces, we made art etc.
But if their interest was Iran or WW2 or comic books we could have learned all the same things.

The problem is you have no idea how that young person would have fared if they had started school at 4 and never been home educated. So many families end up with no option but home Ed when their child is burnt out from school.

School just isn't working for some people.
While it's possible he may have been fine if never home Ed it is also possible he may have burnt out and been damaged from the school system either way.

Only relevant if the child has key mathematical concepts and the counting and measuring is at an appropriate level for each child.

Key mathematical and cognitive concepts for children learning money include:
Conservation of number
Classification
Seriation (ordering by size/value)
Subitising (recognising small quantities instantly)
One-to-one correspondence
Cardinality
Counting principles
Place value
Part-whole understanding
Equivalence (different coins having same value)
Addition and subtraction
Estimation
Symbol recognition (numerals and currency symbols)

These concepts support understanding of quantity, value, exchange, and calculation with money.
Different, of course, at different levels for each child. In the ‘IKEA’ example, it was obvious that the three children did not have the relevant concepts and as they were at different developmental stages the ‘talk’ in IKEA about money and measuring furniture was largely irrelevant.

child than a classroom lesson measuring the longest pencil or worksheets of coins in purses.
or measuring the classroom furniture, handling money in the role play shop, den building poles in the outdoor as they co constructing their den.
Very little use of worksheets on my watch and teachers very clearly steered away from this! (As a teacher, headteacher or adviser).

They may be doing that topic for any number of reasons. The point I was making was they don't have to - a different school may achieve the same by French History or the history of space travel or history of footwear.
Different topics will be attempted to get pupils engaged better
Home Ed just has even more freedom to tailor the work to achieve better engagement and interest.
While some pupils in your child's school may have liked Iranian history other may have really struggled with the topic because it's 30 different pupils with 30 different needs compared to individual curriculum for home education

Maybe they're doing it in English? I don't know. Which is why I definitely shouldnt be teaching! And I don't think my 90s frame of what is the right subjects is a good route to take either. Fair play to people who have the time and resources to do it and do it well.

I think the hardest bit must be not pushing them into what you enjoy or want to do and not expressing rolling eyed cynicism over subjects I hate.

I couldn't do it. All the subjects have changed. We did the Tudors and Stuart's at dc's age but DC is doing some Iranian history topic this term. So presumably we would have to stay a year ahead of them in all subjects and understand the pedagogy of how to get those points across well. I guess that means one of us quitting work since we both with full time. And that would mean they lose out on holidays and extra curriculars. I assume that if not forced by SEN issues then most home educators are quite privileged on that front.

That said I have never assumed that school would provide them with everything they need. I think a lot of parents consider education a 'service' and blame the school when their child can't spell rather than thinking maybe they should have spent some time cementing the school knowledge at home.

I couldn't do it. All the subjects have changed. We did the Tudors and Stuart's at dc's age but DC is doing some Iranian history topic this term. So presumably we would have to stay a year ahead of them in all subjects and understand the pedagogy of how to get those points across well. I guess that means one of us quitting work since we both with full time. And that would mean they lose out on holidays and extra curriculars. I assume that if not forced by SEN issues then most home educators are quite privileged on that front.

That said I have never assumed that school would provide them with everything they need. I think a lot of parents consider education a 'service' and blame the school when their child can't spell rather than thinking maybe they should have spent some time cementing the school knowledge at home.

Only relevant if the child has key mathematical concepts and the counting and measuring is at an appropriate level for each child.

Key mathematical and cognitive concepts for children learning money include:
Conservation of number
Classification
Seriation (ordering by size/value)
Subitising (recognising small quantities instantly)
One-to-one correspondence
Cardinality
Counting principles
Place value
Part-whole understanding
Equivalence (different coins having same value)
Addition and subtraction
Estimation
Symbol recognition (numerals and currency symbols)

These concepts support understanding of quantity, value, exchange, and calculation with money.
Different, of course, at different levels for each child. In the ‘IKEA’ example, it was obvious that the three children did not have the relevant concepts and as they were at different developmental stages the ‘talk’ in IKEA about money and measuring furniture was largely irrelevant.

child than a classroom lesson measuring the longest pencil or worksheets of coins in purses.
or measuring the classroom furniture, handling money in the role play shop, den building poles in the outdoor as they co constructing their den.
Very little use of worksheets on my watch and teachers very clearly steered away from this! (As a teacher, headteacher or adviser).

Only relevant if the child has key mathematical concepts and the counting and measuring is at an appropriate level for each child.

Key mathematical and cognitive concepts for children learning money include:
Conservation of number
Classification
Seriation (ordering by size/value)
Subitising (recognising small quantities instantly)
One-to-one correspondence
Cardinality
Counting principles
Place value
Part-whole understanding
Equivalence (different coins having same value)
Addition and subtraction
Estimation
Symbol recognition (numerals and currency symbols)

These concepts support understanding of quantity, value, exchange, and calculation with money.
Different, of course, at different levels for each child. In the ‘IKEA’ example, it was obvious that the three children did not have the relevant concepts and as they were at different developmental stages the ‘talk’ in IKEA about money and measuring furniture was largely irrelevant.

child than a classroom lesson measuring the longest pencil or worksheets of coins in purses.
or measuring the classroom furniture, handling money in the role play shop, den building poles in the outdoor as they co constructing their den.
Very little use of worksheets on my watch and teachers very clearly steered away from this! (As a teacher, headteacher or adviser).

An actual experience of measuring furniture and using money will be more meaningful and useful to a child than a classroom lesson measuring the longest pencil or worksheets of coins in purses.

You have made a very big assumption. You have a very school-centric idea of what education is which is shown by your questions about identifying gaps and matching learning.

My experience, research and passion for learning is based on co-construction of learning, sustained shared thinking and the value of first hand experience. This, however does not negate a hierarchy of skills based on prior learning.

This thread is excellent as it is really showing how skilled and committed home educators need to be. It is not a fanciful ‘trip to IKEA to talk about money and measure furniture’ - a recent experience of mine!

spend all day every day observing and assessing your child, actually talking to them, and you can address gaps and tailor learning there and then. Not all parents expect this level of commitment even.