Is a St George cross an underlying sign of passive racism?

This 'Reform hijacked the flag' doesn't really make sense. It's not as though the flag wasn't really quite regularly flown by racists before last August (and generating the exact same debates: I remember this around the World Cup in the early 2000s!). Reform and Fly the Colours and similar put the flag up because of what it symbolized already: they didn't make it a racist act, they did it because it is one.

Because you're filling in gaps on behalf of other people. Someone not acknowledging something is not the same as actively denying! I think people are 'horrified' that anyone would automatically call someone racist for flying a flag. Which is horrifying. And wrong. And rude. And obnoxious.

There are multiple posts on this thread supporting the flying of the flag, acting horrified that anyone would call it a potentially racist act, without acknowledging the associations it has and why some people might feel threatened by it. And no, I really don’t think a lot of people do acknowledge this or actively push back against it.

Cannot quite understand if we’re reading the same thread!

It's literally how they took back the union flag - mass flying.

Yes, everybody should have encouraged to put up the cross of St George taking any racist connations out of those putting the flag up for racist reasons.

Maybe I wasn't clear in the flag that they should all have been encouraged to put was the English flag.

But you have mis interpreted what I have posted.

Put it this way - there were no flags on St George’s day last week in my area of London. They will go up for the football though. Would be interesting if someone had gone and done a survey of “flag areas’ and then compared to the upcoming local council elections. Reform have hijacked the flag somewhat in some areas. I bet there is actually a link if anyone had bothered to study it. Would have been an interesting dissertation for a politics student. I am now 95% confident Reform won’t get any councillors in our immediate area in.

Yes, in no other country does an element of the population choose to be ashamed of their national flag.

TBH nobody is more anti-English than some English people! And they often put it down to the legacy of empire, etc. but plenty of other countries had empires (France and Belgium are just two, and Germany did try very hard to have one not so very long ago…) but I never hear about those nationals being ashamed of their flags.

I don't - I said 'are people' - meaning 'people'. I gave myself as an example because I can only give myself as an example!!

I don't think anyone on this thread has once said that the flag hasn't been coopted by racists, not once, unless I have missed something, show me where someone has denied this is the case?

Not underlying, and possibly not passive either.

It was St George’s day last week - patron saint of England, Malta and Georgia. That’s probably why. It’s also popular among football fans during international matches and used to fly from pretty much every Anglican parish church in the country at one point. It’s decidedly odd to think that supporting your country is racist.

I wasn’t speaking to you personally!
Not sure why you think I am.

Rather to the many people on this thread and elsewhere who defend the flying of the flag without recognising its potency as a nationalistic symbol (which is being abused and co-opted).

It’s our national flag just after St George’s Day. Not everyone has any agenda.

Be warned - if England do ok in the World Cup, they will go up again. 🙄

Are people not doing that? I am. That said I am fighting Reform on my own doorstep - and the delightful Heritage Party, have you heard of them?! - to make sure that my home nation doesn't elect a bunch of rag tag racist failed English nationalists next Thursday. So I don't have all the energy to do everything.

I’d say part of that reclaiming should be calling out explicitly the right wing led flag-flying campaign we see everywhere at the moment.
Otherwise it’s ambiguous at best.

This ⬆️

No one is unaware. No one is pretending there is not a serious problem. Some people choose not to subscribe to the narrative that those who use it in nefarious ways are trying to make wholesale. Accepting it is a 'racist symbol' is contributing to the problem, not counteracting it. And assuming everyone who chooses to fly it is a bigot is ridiculous irony.

No they're not.

They perhaps don't leap to instant judgement as much as you, are less narrow-minded and have more life experience.

For the SG flag to become an acknowledged symbol of racist beliefs, we'd all have to sign up to that, an I'm not going to.

Fight your corner - don't let them have it.

Anyone who is unaware of the message it (currently) gives is either being wilfully ignorant, or is simply an idiot.

No.
See @KoiTetra 's post at 11:15.

Someone summed it up on the first page - flags are useful in that they show where the rascist Reform voters are.

This is a great explanation, thank you.

Just because a few of nasty people WANT to co-opt the St George's flag to represent their beliefs, we shouldn't let them. It's within all our powers to keep it as a unifying symbol of national pride and identity but we all need to show determination not to go along with their agenda.

People who insist it's an indicator of definite racism are actually going along with that very agenda.

Things haven't gone too far yet. I'm willing to admit that you couldn't use a swastika, an ancient Hindu sun symbol, any more without connotations. I've got an early edition of the Just So Stories by Kipling with little swastikas on the spine - all very innocent in those days. We need to take back the flag(s) now.

I suggest you seek out the definition of the word “BIGOT” then re-read your post and see if you reach an intelligent conclusion about yourself - but I won’t hold much hope that you are capable of much self awareness. Even your “friend” is not allowed to fly her country flag for her own reason, without a nasty, judgmental label from you. What a piece of work you are.

I would have one for St George’s day and to celebrate Shakespeare - his birth and expected death day is St George’s day. So I would have a flag for at least a week if I had a flagpole.
plus for world cups in football/rugby and any other patriotic events that happened.

Yes exactly. I pity the OP’s “friend” for having a “friend” who evidently holds such narrow- minded, intolerant, judgmental views as the OP, and hope this friend sees sense soon and ditches the OP.

I think you have slightly misinterpreted the views of those who are arguing against all use of the flag being racist.

I don't think there is a person on here would would disagree with you that the far right is racist and that they have attempted to twist the national flag to their own symbol and that their use of it is a racist symbol.

The argument is that the flag existed for hundreds of years before the BNP/EDL (insert other far right groups) existed. It is the flag of England and 99% of the worlds countries are able to use their flag to show pride in their country. English people should be able to do the same without instantly being assumed to be racist just because a group of hateful individuals have tried to steal a national symbol.

In short your final paragraph is the truth and the fact you agree that not everyone who flies the flag is racist sets you apart from a number of posters who have said the opposite.